Talking about Generations

By Ines Schinazi

The camera hones in, catching the shy pulse of adolescence. Fluttering images, replete with beauty, cut sharply against the rough and gritty pain of characters stuck somewhere in the middle…

Susan Miller (Baby Boomer) and Tina Cesa Ward (Generation X) write about Generation Y, as young actors portray parts of themselves. Clearly some things never change. No matter what era, what generation, and what new technologies emerge, “…the voyage to self-discovery doesn’t get any easier.”

At first glance, “Anyone But Me” looks like just any other Teenage TV series. Look a little closer. It may quite possibly be unlike anything you’ve ever seen before.

Susan Miller, renowned Playwright, OBIE award winner, Guggenheim Fellow, and writer for “The L Word,” spoke to me about co-creating the new web series “Anyone But Me.”

I also spoke to the Rachael Hip-Flores, about her role as Vivian, being a part of something so groundbreaking, and what it all feels like.

Watch the series here: http://www.anyonebutmeseries.com

An Interview with Susan Miller

Ines: How did the idea for “Anyone But Me” come about? Was there a particular experience that made you want to write the show?
Susan Miller: Tina Cesa Ward is my co-writer on the show. She really brought this idea to me. It was something she wanted to develop, and the timing was right for me to say yes. To talk about growing up, and becoming a person, that’s really rich material. So we really set out together to create the show. What I was attracted to in what she wrote was the concept and the idea of doing a New York show about young people who are struggling. I wanted to make it larger than it was really, about young people who are struggling with their identity and modern relationships, but I also wanted to bring to it the larger picture. I thought, “We have an opportunity for the show to be about young people, but not as if they are living in a void, but as part of this world, now.”

Ines: Can you talk a little about the title?
Susan Miller: What I love about it is it’s so open to interpretation. I think that it’s both about inclusion and exclusion.

Ines: The tagline for the show is “Introducing a new generation searching for love and belonging 
in the post 9/11 age.” From your perspective, did 9/11 change this generation’s idea and conception of love and belonging?
Susan Miller: I think in a way it has forced young people to be a little more aware, not just of self. When you’re growing up, you are trying to figure out who you are, and how you fit into the world. Now because everything is so global, you realize you are part of something bigger, and what happens to other people in a way happens to you. I think underneath it all, what the world is like right now, has a subtle if not an obvious effect on the characters.

Ines: As a baby boomer writing a series about generation Y, what do you think makes generation Y different or similar from your generation?
Susan Miller: Everyone’s gone through adolescence and a finding of oneself, and a re-finding of one’s self. I think that’s what we have in common for sure. It’s interesting because I’m a parent, and my generation, the baby boomers, we kind of focused our children in a certain way. We were given the opportunity as a generation to go to school. Women started to have more voice in things, but in many ways those things are sort of coming to bear now. You think about the civil rights movement, which really began when I was young. It’s really hard to believe that that wasn’t so long ago. Yet, here we are, with another civil rights movement, which is, gay rights. But we’re connected in a way because we have an African American president now, which doesn’t mean racism is over, but it comes as a circle. I feel very much a part of that. I do think that the big difference is sexuality is more open. There’s certainly more acceptance, even though there’s still hate and exclusion.

Ines: The show is quite possibly the first time that the “gay question” is really openly addressed in a teen TV series. It’s really offers us a different perspective. In other teen series, there may be hints at gay characters, or we see characters like Serena’s little brother in Gossip Girl, who is gay. But it’s never a main character, it’s never the main story, it’s always peripheral and very much a side story. So this really makes it fundamentally different than anything we’ve seen before. I was wondering if you could talk a little about that, and just breaking down barriers in general with the show.
Susan Miller: That’s what I’ve always done in my work. I wrote a play called “Confessions of the Female Disorder” a long time ago. It dealt with that issue, and someone finding themselves in both worlds, straight and gay, or possibly gay, and trying to figure out what were these feelings. The main thing here is you hardly ever see stories about lesbians and teens for sure, you don’t see that. You maybe see a gay guy who is friends with the lead of the show or something like that. I don’t know of anything like this and like our characters. That’s what’s important to me and I love doing it. We don’t have to think about restrictions a network might have. We decide the stories we’re going to tell. A lot of the fans (they’re of all ages by the way, from 16-50 something) will say, “I wish I had a show like this when I was growing up.”

Ines: One of the most interesting aspects of the show is that it really exists on two planes.
On the one hand, it is very much a teenage series, just like all other teenage series. We see the characters dealing with school, relationships, parents, moving to a new school, etc.
Of course, as we look closer, it’s obvious that this isn’t just another teen series. I would argue that this makes the show more powerful. By incorporating elements of the traditional teenage drama and then juxtaposing it with a lot of things that go against the stereotype. I was wondering if this juxtaposition was a conscious choice for you?
Susan Miller: Yeah, I’m really psyched that you get that, and appreciate it on that level. For me, I only want to write things that are a challenge…things that also are complex and have these layers. Even if people watch it and aren’t totally conscious of these different layers, that’s part of the draw.
First of all, there’s a level at which everybody has access to this, because everyone struggles with “Who am I?” and “Who am I going to find to love?” and “Who’s going to love me?” and “Is that the right person?” And then you struggle with “How much do you reveal of yourself?”
I think we want to make the relationships with the adults not the usual. We don’t want to create the stereotype of the adults either. We want to deal with real interaction.
Another major aspect of “Anyone But Me,” that makes it really unique, and what I’m really drawn to elaborating and examining is the relationship between Vivian and Archibald. Can a young, black, straight guy be friends with a young “off white” 16 year-old lesbian girl?” It’s interesting because it taps into another lens we have going on. We’re coming at people in a way they don’t even realize. Instead of making it an issue, we’re demonstrating that these two people have much more in common than the world would think. I feel like young people today interact much more with one another. They don’t pay as much attention to this idea of what’s “right” and what’s “wrong,” what’s “normal” and what’s “not normal.” They just see one another more clearly.

Ines: Not only is “Anyone But Me” bringing different themes to the table, but it’s also being diffused in quite a revolutionary manner, through the show’s website (www.anyonebutmeseries.com) and through Blip and Strike TV, allowing you to reach audience members all over the world. What do you think are the benefits and limitations of Internet diffusion?
Susan Miller: Right now I only see the benefits! We get to interact and we get to hear responses right away. I’ve been moved by comments. I’m moved that we’re getting fans from the Netherlands, France, UK, Argentina, and Brazil. When I see that it’s thrilling! It means that people are hungry for good stuff, for quality material. People are hungry to see themselves. And I don’t just mean if they’re gay, but to see something that’s honestly human.
I think the only difficult thing about the web, is that you sort of go in as a pioneer. You go in on your own. That’s the hard part. There are other web series creators too. We share this uncharted territory, and that makes it exciting! We did things I never did before, like Myspace, Twitter, and Facebook.

Ines: As an extremely accomplished playwright, what’s it like to go from playwriting to writing a web series? Besides for the obvious difference in form, does it greatly affect the way you write, the content, and your writing style?
Susan Miller: It’s interesting because I think playwrights are much more suited to write for television than for film. In this form [web series] where we have to compress everything in this very challenging 8-10 minute form, it’s not unlike writing plays. You don’t want to tell everything, but you want to have subtext. A play generally has a limited time to tell a story, build characters, and point you to the main struggle. “Economy” is really the key in playwriting as well.

Ines: What do you think is the biggest difference between the baby boomer’s conception of romantic love and generation Y’s idea of it?
Susan Miller: Yeah, it’s different! It depends on your family too. I’m really fortunate because my parents were married for over 50 years and my dad was in the army.
When he came home from the army, I think I saw my parents as this romantic model for me. I was kind of a little shocked when I entered the real world and experienced it for myself: different relationships, marriage, and Divorce.
I think that this generation, the great thing is, that they are clearer. They see things. They don’t romanticize things as much. But on the other hand, I feel that’s also a shame. It’s two extremes. If you base anything on the old romantic ideal: one partner, one soul mate, for the rest of your life, you’re going to eventually find faults, flaws, and be deflated.
I really worry about young people ultimately finding someone to trust. That’s what I worry about the most.
A lot of people my age, because we did get divorced, and we did experience the sexual experimentation of the era…you know the 70s, we do have a lot that we relate to, because we went through real upheavals.
Hey, we shocked our parents! Our parents had to confront our divorces, our changes in sexual partners, and our way of raising our kids.

Ines: Can you speak a little bit more about “trust” and this generation?
Susan Miller: Even in “Anyone but Me,” there’s something running through with that.
You don’t know what’s going to happen. Everybody has a history. You start to have a history. You don’t have a lot of history at 16, but you start to have one, and then you meet other people with a history. This is a history of both wonderful relationships and terrible ones, and loss and connection. So people are weary.

Ines: Do you see this weariness as being more prevalent with our generation?
Susan Miller: I do, because you’ve been more products of broken homes, and of many, many, relationships, at a young age.

Ines: The show accurately depicts generation Y as avid technology users, as they communicate through various different technologies.
Some argue that all these technologies allow for a more flexible identity, as one doesn’t always have to interact face to face, and can rely on a sort of idealized self. What are your thoughts on this?
Susan Miller: I think it contributes to fluidity in general, and perhaps invasiveness. People don’t have as much of a sense of responsibility towards each other. They will share information, and secrets, in the “Twittering Nation” that we belong to. People don’t stop and think first.

Ines: You wrote for the 1st season of “The L Word” and you’re obviously co-writing “Anyone But Me.” How are these projects different?
Susan Miller: “The L word” was groundbreaking and it was very cool to be a part of. It was both treacherous and completely amazing to be part of the beginning of a show like that. “The L word” was about adults. It was much more sexualized and it became exaggerated in my mind, eventually.
With “Anyone but me” we’ve taken a leap. We haven’t asked ourselves: “Who’s going to buy this?” Or “Should we tone this down?” or “Maybe we can’t have two gay characters…” We just trust our instincts. I think we’ve come up with a web series, (and I give this credit to Tina), that looks beautiful. Everyone comments on how well produced it is, and how it looks like it should be on network or cable television. I’m so proud of this.

Ines: Vivian and Aster interact with parents, who at least for the time being, have been very comfortable with their sexuality. There isn’t a whole lot of conflict between generations. Do you think this is an accurate depiction?
Susan Miller: Well, there will be [conflict]. We have it set up so that Vivian’s dad seems to be ok with it. That was important to us. The truth is there are accepting parents.

Ines: Do you think that’s something we’re moving more towards?
Susan Miller: I think the more images of positive relationships, or images of people at least trying to work it out, and trying to understand, and find a meeting place, [will help us move towards more acceptance]. I don’t think parents want to lose the love of their children or relationships with their children.

An Interview with Rachael Hip-Flores

Ines: Can you talk a little about what it’s like to play Vivian on the show? Was it easy and natural for you to relate to this character?
Rachael: Definitely. I think it’s an extremely positive experience. I think we’re very similar mentally. We both tend to keep things in a little bit. And I know what it feels like to sort of feel like you don’t quite fit in, and to deal with that knowledge in the way that she deals with it. It’s a little bit like going back to High School for me. It’s like, “Oh Ok… I’ve done this before…”

Ines: Do you think the teenage characters in “Anyone But Me” are a good representation of our generation?
Rachael: Yeah, absolutely, I think the characters are much more complex than their mainstream counterparts. Nobody really fits into a “stereotype” in life. There are a lot of mainstream characters that are gay now. It’s much more open now than it was 10 or 15 years ago. But I think there is still some unease, especially when you are young, and you are first figuring things out. No matter how much attention an issue gets, I think that it always comes down to your own personal journey. I think that having more attention given to it helps a lot, but no one can take it [the personal journey] for you. It’s always going to be difficult. That’s the universal truth, no matter what generation. The voyage to self-discovery doesn’t get any easier.

Ines: I think that one of the most interesting aspects of “Anyone but me” is the fact that it is perhaps the first time that the “gay question” is really openly talked about in a teenage TV series.
It’s really a different perspective. It’s the main story, and not peripheral or a side story…
Rachael: Absolutely. I mean, we did start to see it in “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” with Willow and her partner. And “Dawson’s Creek” had Jack, another gay character in there for a while, but, yes, they were on the periphery. Little by little, the more it gets talked about, the more mainstream and accepted it becomes. So I think this, as a teen show where the gay relationship is the central one, it’s hopefully the next step.

Ines: Not only is “Anyone But Me” bringing different themes to the table, but it’s also being diffused in quite a revolutionary manner, through the website and through Blip and strike TV, allowing you to reach audience members all over the world. What do you think are the benefits and limitations of Internet diffusion?
Rachael: I want to say that the benefits outweigh the limitations. The fact is we’re getting “thank you” letters from all around the world. From Malaysia, Australia, and Spain. I actually don’t understand, because the show is not translated into all these different languages. It’s being distributed in English.
Also, we have connectivity [with the fans] through Facebook, Myspace, Twitter, and God knows what else! I think that the limitation is the time limit. You want these episodes to go on a little longer. But if you get a 10 minute episode, that’s kind of long for an Internet series.

Ines: The tagline for the show is “Introducing a new generation searching for love and belonging in the post 9/11 age.” How has 9/11 changed our generation’s conception of love and belonging?
Rachael: I think that if there is anything to be gained from it [9/11], it’s the knowledge on a more visceral level that things end very quickly. People can be taken away from you. That’s a horrible knowledge to have, and it’s also very valuable knowledge to have. It makes you value the people that you love. It changes your relationship with what you have.

Ines: Do you think that makes people from our generation more ready to jump in and do what you want to do?
Rachael: I want to say yes to that, and I also I think it’s a difficult to make a generalization about stuff like that. I think it can make you want to jump in, and go for it, and it can also make you a little more hesitant. 9/11 changed me personally. When I see my cell phone ring, there’s a part of me that thinks, “What’s going on?” “Is something bad happening to them?” “Is this going to be the last phone call I get?”

Ines: The show also explores many intergenerational relationships, though it’s interesting the adults seem quite open to accepting Vivian and Aster’s relationship. We don’t see a lot of conflict between the teenagers and the adults. Would you say this is an accurate depiction of how things are?
Rachael: It illustrates something that I don’t think we’ve seen before. I think people are just more open to it [gay relationships] because it’s being talked about more. It’s being explored more.
But at the same time, I’ve talked to people who were saying that their biggest fear was not their friends or their school…it was their parents. I think it’s always difficult because your family is the closest thing to you. Whether we like it or not, we tend to want their acceptance. So when we do something that challenges that, it’s scary. We see the great relationship that Vivian has with her dad, and we also see the sort of non-relationship that Aster has with her parents.

Ines: Technology plays quite a central role in the show, especially in terms of how the characters communicate with each other. We’ve seen a lot of cell phone conversations, and text messaging. In the case of Vivian and Aster, who are in a sort of long distance relationship, would you say this technology strengthens or weakens the communication between them?
Rachael: That’s an interesting question. On one hand, it does make communication more possible, and on the other hand, the fact that it’s more possible complicates things. If Vivian were 16 years old, 15 years ago, there was no cell phone and there was no e-mail. You move away, you’re 16 years old, and you’re probably done. Without technology, it would have broken them up. It would have been awful for sure, but it also would have been “cleaner.” You have no excuse for being out of touch with someone now. So because the “clean break” is taken away from you, [you go through the] “well, what are we now?” You communicate but you can’t be with each other. There’s something immediate and intimate about physicality that you can’t really get. So it puts strength in their relationship, but it also complicates it. With this type of communication and this technology, you can “edit” yourself so much. I heard this story today of someone… You know how when you leave a voicemail you can re-record it? Except the phone that was recording was malfunctioning and so it wasn’t erasing what was going on. So you can hear this guy’s voicemail to this girl. He had just told her he loved her the night before. There were 16 different versions of “Hey we should talk about what happened” and it ended with “Hey just wanted to see how you are.” It’s like you’re putting yourself out, but you’re not. You’re putting your “representative” out. It’s the edited version of what you are. It’s who you want to be. But it’s actually not you.

Ines: I’m curious to know if you’ve encountered censorship or prejudice regarding the show. I watched the video essay Nicole Pacent (Aster) did on “The Catcher in the Rye” and it got me thinking if the show had encountered any resistance of its own?
Rachael: You know for the most part, it’s been very positive. I’ve got to tell you, I’ve gotten Facebook friends, and people who fit the stereotype of people who are going to preach to me, and people who are going to say that what I’m doing is wrong, but I “friend” them anyways. And you know what? All they ever say is, “I’m a huge fan of the show.”

Ines: Romantic relationships are undergoing a lot of changes. In your opinion, what’s the biggest difference between our parents’ view of love and ours?
Rachael: My parents grew up in the 60’s. That was their coming of age. That was obviously a huge time of revolution and experimentation. After the 60’s, and the wonderful, free, beautiful, time that was, there was also the other side …like the LSD. There was a lot of excess that went on in the 70’s. I think that our generation, now that we are coming of age, having had that example, I want to believe that we are a more responsible generation. Now that we’ve seen the aftermath, we’ve seen the epidemic (AIDS, STDs, and unwanted pregnancies), we know what dangers there are out there. Our [sexual] fluidity comes with a bit more knowledge, that there are consequences. We are a lot more fluid and we are a lot more open with our sexuality. But I think we are a bit smarter about it.

Ines: People often talk about how acting on stage is completely different from acting on film. I’m curious to know if being a “web series” actor overflows into the craft and asks for different things of you as an actor?
Rachael: Yes and no. Fundamentally no. You still have to know who you are, know the situation you are in, know how you feel about something, and know what you want. That’s the foundation of acting. In a way [in a web series], you have to give more weight to what you are doing, because this is the most important 10 minutes of these people’s lives right now. But it still comes down to, “what story are you telling?” “What story is written in the script?”

Tags: Artikullocks, Generation X, Generation Y, interview, L Word, Rachael Hip-Flores, Susan Miller, TV