Ines: What do you think the workplace will look like in 5 years? Many generational experts seem to think that we are moving away from traditional corporate structures and into a world of freelancers…Do you think this is the case?
Bruce: I’m not a futurist. I’d say that work is likely to be increasingly free of boundaries when it comes to where and when people work. I’d say work relationships are likely to become more and more short-term and transactional. I’d say that on-site, uninterrupted, long-term, exclusive employment relationships will be less and less common.

Ines: There’s a lot of talk about Gen Y having the highest self-esteem of any Generation so far. Have you encountered this in your research?
Bruce: Why are Gen Yers so confident and self-possessed, even in the face of all this uncertainty? One reason is surely that they grew up in the Decade of the Child. Gen Xers were the great unsupervised generation (we made the latchkey into a metaphor). But Generation Y was the great oversupervised generation. In the short time between the childhood of Generation X and that of Generation Y, making children feel great about themselves and building up their self-esteem became the dominant theme in parenting, teaching, and counseling. Throughout their childhood, Gen Yers were told over and over, “Whatever you think, say or do, that’s okay. Your feelings are true. Don’t worry about how the other kids play. That’s their style. You have your style.” This is what child psychologists called “positive tolerance,” and it was only one small step to the damaging cultural lies that somehow “we are all winners” and “everyone gets a trophy.”

Gen Yers have been respected, nurtured, scheduled, measured, discussed, diagnosed, medicated, programmed, and rewarded as long as they can remember. Their parents, determined to create a generation of super-children, perhaps accelerated their childhood. On one hand, kids grow up so fast today (I often say that twelve is the new nineteen); on the other, they seem to stay tightly moored to their parents throughout their twenties. Their early precociousness,in fact, turns into a long-lasting sophomorism. Many psychologists have observed that Gen Yers act like highly precocious late adolescents well into adulthood. (I often say that thirty is the new twenty.)

Ines: Your work reveals an interesting feature about Gen Y. On one hand, they’ve grown up with the hyper-connectivity and flexibility of the Internet and digital age, thriving on customization and diversity. Yet from your research they obviously need a great deal of structure in the workplace. What’s the key to reconciling these two Gen Y characteristics in the workplace?
Bruce: Gen Yers want freedom to maneuver at work. They want some latitude when it comes to their schedule, where they do their work, whom they work with, what they do, and how they do it. The problem is that every task, responsibility, and project has parameters that constrain every employee’s freedom.

But as much as they love freedom, Gen Yers also gravitate to structure and boundaries. For one thing, they don’t want to waste their time. Don’t forget, since they were kids, Gen Yers have been hyper-scheduled by overbearing adults. Whether they were being subjected to metal detectors, locker searches and lockdowns in school, or their own “individual learning plans”—and everything in between—Gen Yers are well accustomed to programs and procedures. One Gen Yer describes it this way: “The last thing I’m looking for is somebody telling me, ‘Yeah, do it how you think it should be done,’ but then it turns out she already knows exactly how she wants it done. I don’t want to beat my head against the wall trying to figure something out if you’ve already got it figured out. I definitely am interested in putting my personal stamp on things, but if that’s not going to happen, tell me up front.”

If you want to give Gen Yers more freedom at work, the biggest favor you can do for them is establish clear boundaries and give them a structure within which they can function with some autonomy. It is true that some jobs require employees to take risks and make mistakes. Even in those cases, it is the manager’s job to help Gen Yers avoid taking unnecessary risks and repeating mistakes that others have already made. Creativity and innovation do not require recklessness. You tell the advertising copywriter to “think outside the box,” but you must also help him avoid libel, slander, and obscenity. You need the nuclear scientist to be innovative, but you must help her avoid a nuclear explosion. It’s great if your food preparation workers are creative, but you don’t want them changing the recipes on regular menu items. As a leader, you have to create a structure and clear boundaries in order to create a space in which risk taking and mistakes are truly safe in the context of a job.

Often a good way to allow Gen Yers to express creativity is to give them assignments that are truly matters of first impression. Maybe you, as the manager, don’t yet have a clear goal in mind; you don’t know exactly what you are looking for yet. This is a great opportunity to ask a young employee to “take a crack at it” and “do it however you think it should be done” and really mean what you say. It’s perfectly fine to use this Gen Yer to help you work out the early stages of your own creative process. But make sure you are clear from the start about the structure and boundaries. Explain that you are delegating only the initial stage of the creative process and you intend to take the project back.

In fact, whenever you have a new task, responsibility, or project for one of your very capable young employees, always start by spelling out expectations. Make absolutely sure that person understands exactly what he is expected to do and how he is expected to do it. That’s the only way to get employees to adopt your organization’s best practices and turn them into standard operating procedures.

Ines: Ines: And how should be the performance appraisal or the follow-up after gen Y´s tasks?
Bruce: As long as the assignment lasts, you should follow up regularly with one-on-one check-in conversations to review the employee’s progress. In those conversations, you should ask, “What have you already done? What steps did you follow? What step are you going to do next?” Listen carefully to their answers. Make it a habit to wrap up these conversations by deciding on a specific place and time for your next meeting to follow up.

Every assignment, no matter how much freedom and creativity is required, must have clear goals and specific deadlines with measurable benchmarks along the way. Boundaries and structure, however loose, are actually the keys to making freedom and creativity in the real world possible.

You might think a generation raised on mantras like “we’re all winners” and “everyone gets a trophy” wouldn’t be particularly competitive. But that is not the case. While the self-esteem movement was chipping away at Generation Y ers’ competitiveness, the testing movement was building it back up. Still, testing breeds a different kind of competitiveness: competition against standards and benchmarks, against averages and means, and against one’s own past performance.

Think about a video game that a Gen Yer might practice and practice, beating one high score after another, set by himself. He wins every time, and nobody has a reason to feel bad. That’s the kind of competition Gen Yers are looking for: they want to compete against themselves in a safe environment where they can try over and over again to improve on their own performance benchmarks. When it comes to competitiveness at work, this is what one Gen Yer had to say: “I’ll do whatever they want me to do. Just tell me someone is keeping track of all this stuff I’m doing. Tell me I’m getting credit for it, that I’ve been racking up points here like mad. Tell me someone is keeping score.”

When Gen Yers know you are keeping track of their day-to-day performance, their measuring instinct is sparked and their competitive spirit ignited.

If you can think of easy ways to convert the performance you need from your young employees into a point system, then maybe you should consider it. I promise you, a point system will get Gen Yers focused like a laser beam. If you want them to start showing up earlier for work, attach points for every minute they arrive early, and take away points for every minute they come in late. If you want Gen Yers to meet quality standards, give them checklists of every detail and specification, and give points for every detail and specification completed—and take away points for every one missed. If you want Gen Yers to speed up, set a realistic quota of tasks per hour and give points for every task done over the quota—and take away points for every task under the quota. And so on.

Another approach is to help Gen Yers keep track of their own work by using self-monitoring tools. Activity logs are diaries that Gen Yers can keep, noting contemporaneously exactly what they do all day. Each time he or she moves on to a new activity, the Gen Yer might note the time and the new activity. By using these tools, Gen Yers can document their own hard work every step of the way and build their own track record of success.

My advice to managers is to plug into Gen Yers’ transactional mind-set. Stop paying them and start buying their results, one by one. The more you trade results for rewards, the more reliable their performance will be. The smaller the increments you buy in, the more effective it will be.

The key to your success will be defining those measurable pieces of work and setting a price per piece.

Like was said in the post bellow, here goes the second part of the interview with Bruce Tulgan, the founder of Rainmaker Thinking Inc., best-selling author and the 2009 recipient of the prestigious Toastmaster’s International Golden Gavel, in an exclusive interview with Talking About Generations:

Ines: How do the aspects of privilege, culture, and social class fit into “Not everyone gets a trophy?” Is the idea of a generation getting trophies just for showing up, linked to a privileged American upbringing?
Bruce: The title is a reference to the fact that Generation Y is the generation of kids where every kid did get a trophy, just for participating. So many so-called ‘experts’ have jumped onto the bandwagon of this topic, but our research shows that most of these so-called ‘experts’ have got it all wrong. In many recent books and articles, many of these ‘experts’ argue that, since Gen Yers have always gotten a trophy just for showing up, maybe the best way to manage them is to give them lots of praise and, basically, give them a trophy just for showing up.

These ‘experts’ tell managers to create “thank-you” programs, “praise” programs, and “reward” programs. They recommend turning recruiting into one long sales pitch; transforming the workplace into a veritable playground; rearranging training so it revolves around interactive computer gaming; encouraging young workers to find a “best friend” at work; and teaching managers to soft-pedal their authority. In my view, this approach is out of touch with reality, especially in today’s environment.

Here’s the short story with Generation Y. If you liked Generation X, you are going to love Generation Y. Generation Y is like Generation X on-fast-forward-with-self-esteem-on-steroids. Gen Yers’ childhood was defined mostly by the 1990s, and they are reaching their early stage of adulthood amid the profound changes of the 2000s—this era of uncertainty. One could say that the same major historical forces that shaped Generation X are also shaping Generation Y: Globalization and technology, institutions in a state of constant flux, the information tidal wave, and the growing immediacy of everything. But those forces have picked up so much velocity in just one generation that I would argue there is a profound difference in the life experience of Generation Y. After all, there is only one globe, and it is now totally interconnected. GenYers connect with their farthest-flung neighbors in real time regardless of geography through online communities of interest.

But as our world shrinks (or flattens), events great and small taking place on the other side of the world (or right next door) can affect our material well-being almost overnight. World institutions—nations, states, cities, neighborhoods, families, corporations, churches, charities, and schools—remain in a state of constant flux just to survive. Authority is questioned routinely. Research is quick and easy. Anyone can get published. We try to filter through the endless tidal wave of information coming at us from an infinite number of sources. A year is long term, and five years is just a hallucination. Short term is the key to relevance. In a world defined by constant change, instantaneous response is the only meaningful time frame.

Ines: But why is Gen Y so different from other generations?
Bruce: Gen Yers are comfortable in this highly interconnected rapidly changing web of variables. Uncertainty is their natural habitat. Globalization does not make Gen Yers feel small. Rather, it makes them feel worldly. Technological change does not make them feel as if they are racing to keep up. Rather, it makes them feel connected and powerful.

Institutions may be in a state of constant flux, but that’s no problem. Gen Yers are just passing through anyway, trying to squeeze out as much experience and as many resources as they can and so on.

The power of diversity has finally kicked over the melting pot. Generation Y is the most diverse generation in history in terms of ethnic heritage, geographical origins, ability/disability, age, language, lifestyle preference, sexual orientation, color, size, and every other way of categorizing people. But this doesn’t make Gen Yers feel alienated and threatened. Rather, they take the concept of diversity to a whole new level. Generation Y, difference is cool. Uniqueness is the centerpiece of identity.

How do Gen Yers continually shape and reshape their uniqueness? They want to customize anything and everything they possibly can. This goes beyond the services and products they buy. Gen Yers want to customize their very minds, bodies, and spirits, by customizing their information environment on the Internet. They voraciously pursue an ever-increasing array of mind food—images, sounds, experiences, texts—in an ever increasing range of media and formats, from an ever increasing number of sources, for an ever increasing number of purposes (education, skills training, self-help, health, entertainment, news, household matters, consumer interests, life planning, death planning, spirituality, and so on).

They customize their bodies by availing themselves of the wide range of natural and artificial tools and techniques, going way beyond tattoos and piercing and fashion statements. Their efforts range from food obsession to surgery; from Ritalin to naturalism; from yoga to steroids; implants, teeth whitening, tanning cream, and on and on. Beyond family, they customize their primary relationships across space and time in personalized networks. They even customize spiritual lives of their own devising. Gen Yers often put together bits and pieces of the teachings of one or more religious traditions, rejecting others, and ultimately settling on their own selection of values and beliefs and religious or spiritual practices.

From the first day, they arrive in the workplace, they are scrambling to keep their options open, leverage their uniqueness for all its potential value, and wrap a customized career around the customized life they are trying to build.

Ines: In your book, you argue that the idea that Gen Y needs work to be fun is a myth. I recently interviewed Don Tapscott the author of “Wikinomics.“ He writes, “They (Gen Y) think work—the work itself—should be fun and challenging.” He also states, “Training has to change, too. Some companies are using game-based training…” This seems to contrast with your view. What are your thoughts on this?
Bruce: One of the most important things I’ve learned in our research is that most GenYers don’t want to be humored at work. They want to be taken seriously. But they do want work to be engaging. They want to learn, to be challenged, and to understand the relationship between their work and the overall mission of the organization. They want to work with good people and have some flexibility in where, when, and how they work.

From computers, GenYers want to fill skill or knowledge gaps that get in their way. Their tools are usually menu driven information systems, wiki tools, and social networking sites. And it drives GenYers crazy when they have less sophisticated information management tools at work than they have at home. But that doesn’t mean they only want to learn from computers. They absolutely need the human element to do their best learning. GenYers love grown-ups and they love to learn from grown-ups whom they trust, and who are willing to share with them the lessons of their experience.

Gen Yers, especially the most capable and ambitious among them, push hard for more significant roles with increased responsibilities at much earlier stages in their careers than new young workers of generations past. It’s not just misplaced arrogance on their part, but rather a result of their natural adaptation to the information environment.

Managers tell me all the time, “In our line of work, it’s especially challenging to give inexperienced young people significant responsibilities. Perhaps a new young person could learn the knowledge and skill necessary to do one of these tasks and responsibilities, or two, or three, or four. But the role they want is too complex to hand over in its entirety to someone without several years of experience.” I promise you, I’ve been told that by leaders in supermarkets and nuclear weapons labs alike—and everybody in between. We call this the “meaningful roles problem.”

Ines: And what could be the solution for this managers and companies?
Bruce: The simple fact is that if it takes you months or years to get Gen Yers up to speed and into meaningful roles on your team, then you’ll have serious problems keeping high-potential Gen Yers engaged and growing. Don’t tell me you are struggling to manage and retain the best Gen Yers and then tell me it’s going to take months or years before they can do important work that allows their coworkers and bosses to take them seriously. How can you handle this conundrum? You may have to unbundle complex roles and then rebuild them one tiny piece at a time. You can give Gen Yers meaningful work at early stages in their tenure if you commit to teaching and transferring to them one small task or responsibility at a time.

So often I go into an organization that is trying to retool its training practices to suit what they think Gen Yers want and need.

Here’s the good news: you do not have to turn everything (or anything really) into a computer game to plug into Gen Yers’ learning needs. But you really should make the effort to get them the technology they are so comfortable and adept at using.

Yes, Gen Yers want the latest and greatest technology. But it’s not just a desire for the coolest toy. It’s like breathing. It’s their connection to the larger information environment. For Gen Yers, the information technology imperatives are simple: constant connectivity with whomever they want, immediate access to whatever information they want, total customization of their information environment, the ability to learn from and collaborate with experts in real time.

Wiki technology is the ultimate collaboration facilitator by enabling different individuals to contribute to a work product from remote locations on their own time.

Social networking allows anyone to build mutually rewarding relationships with people of similar interests—inside the company or outside—regardless of geography or other boundaries. Instant messaging means anyone can ask anyone they “know” anything at any time. Imagine a mind-set in which these tools—and the corresponding connectivity, immediacy, constant access, and total customization—are taken for granted. The only question is, What are you doing to facilitate Gen Yers’ use of these tools to increase their effectiveness at work?

Put the tools in their hands, and watch them fill one tiny information gap at a time in real time. This is the high-tech analogue to learning one task at a time. With access to the technology they know and love, Gen Yers will fine-tune and nuance their on-the-job learning in ways that might shock and delight you.

Especially when they are new on the job, Gen Yers are eager to identify problems that nobody else has identified and solve problems that nobody else has solved. They want to improve what’s already there, and they want to invent new things.

Most Gen Yers understand this on a gut level and won’t have it any other way. The real challenge is to keep them focused on all that work you hired them to do while simultaneously encouraging them to leverage knowledge and skill in that work. The more you encourage Gen Yers to think about their work—-whatever that work might be—the more engaged they will be. Help them channel their learning directly into their work instead of shooting down their ideas and dampening their enthusiasm. If you hire someone to unload boxes from a truck and that person wants to be an ideas guy, you need to get that individual to focus his thinking and learning on how to better unload boxes from the truck. If you hire someone to dig a ditch, get that individual to focus on how to dig that ditch better. And so on.

When they come in the door, Gen Yers want to hit the ground running. By training them one task a time, giving them the technology tools they need to be fast and efficient, and helping them focus their energy and ideas on the tasks at hand, you’ll be able to plug into their enthusiasm and keep their excitement going past their first day at the job.

Parents have never been so influential in their children’s decisions as they are today. Many parents actually accompany their children to job interviews. Some even make a point of dropping them off on the first day of work. Parents regularly complain about heir children’s grades and shamelessly ask bosses to lighten their child’s workload. Of course, this is old news. Everybody knows that generation Y grew up being overprotected and over parented. Parents are of course largely responsible for young people’s behavior in the workplace today.

Many experts have dedicated themselves to exploring this subject and discovering possible solutions. Bruce Tulgan is one of them. Tulgan argues, “Without strong management in the workplace, there is a void where their parents have always been.” Drawing from his experience as an inter-generational expert, Tulgan tells bosses to “Step into the void…[and] take over the tutoring aspects of the parental role in the workplace.”

Tulgan is the founder of Rainmaker Thinking Inc. and a best-selling author, his most recent book is “Not Everyone Gets a Trophy.” He is also the 2009 recipient of the prestigious Toastmaster’s International Golden Gavel. In an exclusive interview with http://www.talkingaboutgenerations.com, Tulgan shares his thoughts on managing the generation who got a trophy just for showing up.

Ines: You’ve spent years conducting in-depth research on the millennial generation, becoming a veritable expert on the subject. What specifically made you interested in studying this generation, since you’ve spent good part of your career practicing Law?
Bruce: I started out interviewing young people in the workplace back in 1993 when I was a 26 year old lawyer. The oldest of Generation Y at that point were only about 15. Since then, I’ve continued interviewing young people in the workplace. It’s just that I’ve gotten older and older and the young people have become the next generation. So now the oldest GenYers are 32. Just wait, soon they’ll be in their forties and the young people in the workplace will be Generation Z.

Ines: Can you talk a bit about what made you want to found “Rainmaker Thinking” and what you are trying to accomplish through the company?
Bruce: Back in 1993, I was an unhappy lawyer working at Two Wall Street in New York City. I became curious about what was then becoming obvious to me, the generation gap in the workplace at the time. That curiosity turned into a book, which was MANAGING GENERATION X. That book got a lot of attention.

Companies started inviting me to speak at their conferences, train their managers, observe their operations and conduct focus groups with their employees. Then I became more and more interested in the dynamics between managers and employees, more generally. I’d go into a company, interview their employees and managers, meet with the senior executives and share what I’d learned from the employees and managers. And we’d provide training for employees to help them work more effectively with their managers and with each other.

Since the mid-1990s, I’ve had a front-row seat from which to study workplace dynamics. I’ve spent most of my time training managers and employees at all levels and every industry. The more we learn, the more we turn that learning back into more training. It’s a dynamic process, learning from people in our focus groups and interviews and turning those lessons into training programs so we can proliferate the best practices.

Ines: In a praiseful Boston Globe review of your book “Not everyone gets a trophy,” the reviewer remarks, “Tulgan’s approach sometimes sounds more like parenting than managing.” In your opinion do managers have to take on a parenting role? And if so, how will Gen Y eventually learn to “parent” and “lead” themselves?
Bruce: I have a whole chapter in the book called, “Practice In Loco Parentis Management.” Of course, that is somewhat meant to be tongue in cheek, but there is a lot of real data underlying this. The details change, but the thrust of the story is always the same. There’s no doubt that parents are far more heavily involved in the lives and careers of their young adult children than those of previous generations.

College professors and administrators report that the parents of Gen Yers show up to new student orientations in record numbers (some studies indicate that more than 80 percent of new students are now accompanied by a parent for some part or all of orientation). Parents are often consulted several times a day by their college-attending children, using cell phone check-ins to get advice about course choices, classroom protocol, homework assignments, and exams. Professors routinely field parental complaints about student workload and grades.

This pattern of helicopter parenting carries over once Gen Yers get to the workplace. Managers tell me about parents accompanying their children to job interviews and even, once in a while, to the first day of work. Parents are consulted about career decisions and management practices. The big surprise comes when managers hear directly from parents, suggesting their children should be working fewer hours, getting different assignments, winning promotions, and receiving pay increases.

Yes, it is commonplace today for parents to insert themselves in support of their young (and not-so-young) adult children, even in the most adult spheres when such involvement would have been considered totally inappropriate in the past. But remember, this is nothing new for Gen Yers. Their parents have always been highly engaged with them. Every step of the way, they have been guided, directed, supported, coached, and protected. Unlike previous generations, they don’t express much desire to break free as they reach adulthood.

It’s become almost cliché to say that Generation Y is over-parented. But they are. And that is a fact with which managers today must grapple. I don’t think you should accept that. You hired the employee, not the parents. But you do have to deal with it. The irony is that if you hire a Gen Yer who is not close to his or her parents, you may be sorry. Among today’s young workers, those who are closest to their parents will probably turn out to be the most able, most achievement oriented, and the hardest working.

Ines: And what’s the way for employers to deal with this problem of over-parenting?

In my seminars, I tell to take a strong hand as a manager, not a weak one. Your Gen Y employees need to know that you know who they are and care about their success. You need to make it a priority to spend time with them. Guide them through this very difficult and scary world. Break things down like a teacher. Provide regular, gentle course corrections to keep them on track. Be honest with them so you can help them improve. Keep close track of their successes no matter how small. Reward the behavior you want and need to see, and even negotiate special rewards for above-and-beyond performance in very small increments along the way.

When I describe this approach at seminars, at least one manager will remark that this sounds a lot like parenting. Are you saying that we should manage these young upstarts as if we are their parents?”

I’m afraid the answer I’ve come to is yes, at least sort of. Do be careful, and don’t get carried away. The worst thing you can possibly do with Gen Yers is treat them like children, talk down to them, or make them feel disrespected. Gen Yers are used to being treated as valued members of the family, whose thoughts and feelings are important. Remember, Generation Y has gotten more respect from their parents and elders than any other generation in history.

I call this approach in loco parentis management.

Read on tuesday the second part of the interview with Bruce Tulgan

An Interview with the 2009 Miss Mundo Brasil Luciana Bertolini

Standards of beauty are constantly evolving, a rare glimpse into society’s current state of mind. In 1951, the era of the housewife, Miss World, the oldest surviving international Beauty Pageant is founded. Twenty years later, in 1970, the contest is subject to protest as host Bob Hope is bombarded by smoke and flour bombs thrown by feminist protesters. By the 1980’s, the pageant attempts to revamp its image by adopting the slogan, “Beauty with a Purpose,” placing emphasis on contestants’ involvement in charity work. For the first time in history, participants are also judged on their “intelligence” and “personalities.” Now, in 2009, Luciana Bertolini is Miss Mundo Brasil, and a Miss World hopeful…

Growing up, Luciana was no little miss sunshine. Though the 24-year-old model and Journalism student, has just won the title of Miss Mundo Brasil, and will be competing in the Miss World contest this December, her future as a beauty queen is somewhat of a surprise, especially to her 10 year old persona, who clearly remembers thinking, “I don’t want to be wearing a heavy dress full of pearls and stones, parading around with a crown…”

In fact, she recalls the shy but spirited 10-year- old girl, who upon winning her first beauty contest, hid her crown and ripped up her photos, practically dying of embarrassment at the whole ordeal.

And yet, she soon realized she couldn’t cheat destiny. Luciana’s older sister, Adriana Reis, was also named Miss Mundo Brasil in 1998, marking the first time in Brazilian history in which two sisters have earned the same title.

So how did Luciana make the transition from angry ten-year old beauty pageant winner to Miss Mundo Brasil? Luciana explains, “I realized that my participation [in the contest] could open doors for me, especially since I want to work as a journalist.”

When asked about the difference between her experiences as a model and beauty pageant contestant, she concludes, “Models have to be like walking clothes hangers…The good thing about the Miss World contest is that you feel and are treated more like a human being.”

In an exclusive interview, Luciana shares what its like to be a participant in Miss World. She reflects on everything from the ever- evolving standards of beauty, to being a young woman in the midst of the Fashion industry, to what it means when a random little girl on the street confuses you with Barbie…

Ines: Congratulations on earning the title of Miss Mundo Brasil! Was this something you’ve dreamed of doing ever since you were a child?
Luciana: When I was 10 years old I participated in my first beauty contest and won. At the time, I didn’t like being part of it. I remember that when I won, I was embarrassed, I hid my crown…you know kid stuff. I was really shy as a kid. I also remember ripping up some of the photos my mom had taken of me in the contest, which of course made her really sad!

Ten years ago, my older sister also won the title for Miss Mundo Brasil. I remember saying, “I don’t want to do this, I want to focus on my studies, and my professional career.” It really wasn’t something I was thinking about.

However, when I turned 21 years old, another opportunity to participate popped up. This time I realized that my participation could open doors for me, especially since I want to work as a journalist. I’m currently studying Journalism at University.

One thing I really like about the Miss World contest is that they value intelligence. All the candidates are interviewed about current events and controversial issues. For instance, one of the questions they asked me was about the current state of the Brazilian Senate…

Ines: It’s funny, because the perception we often have is that beauty pageant queens always dreamed of doing this, but for you this wasn’t the case…
Luciana: No it wasn’t the case at all! I remember when my sister won the title of Miss Mundo Brasil, I was twelve years old, and we slept in the same bedroom. She would come in and spread all her stuff all over the room. She would make a huge mess with her crown and everything! I remember seeing that, and observing how busy she was, running from one event to the other. I remember thinking, “I don’t want that. I don’t want to be wearing a heavy dress full of pearls and stones, parading around with a crown…”

Ines: So what exactly made you change your mind and want to participate?
Luciana: Of course being part of a beauty contest involves the ego. All women like being called beautiful. But I wasn’t solely motivated by this part, or all the glamour that goes along with it.

I realized that the contest could open doors for me. By obtaining a title like Miss Mundo Brasil or Miss World, it’s another thing that differentiates your resume.

Ines: Why did you choose to study Journalism?
Luciana: I’ve always been really shy. But I’ve always tried to overcome my shyness by doing things I’m scared of doing.

For instance, I started working as an event promoter. I had to talk to strangers on the street and convince them to try products and things. It was difficult for me. It really scared me to death! But I wanted to do things to overcome the shyness a bit and loosen myself up.

I’ve also always loved to write. That’s the way I’ve always expressed myself. When I would tell people that I wanted to study Communication, they would ask, “what do you mean? You are so shy…” But that actually motivated me more, as I saw [pursuing Journalism] as a challenge.

Ines: I read that you said your proudest day was the day you got accepted into University…
Luciana: I really value education. I think that a lot of girls are influenced by fashion in the sense that they start modeling, and forget about their studies. But a model’s career is short. Not everyone experiences the success of Gisele or Adriana Lima. So I think it’s important to have your feet on the ground.

Ines: Can you tell me more about the contest’s idea of “Beauty with a Purpose?”
Luciana: The contest in Brazil embraces an environmental cause, which is the preservation of the Amazon. So we work really closely with the ONG “Amigos da Terra.”

Miss Mundo Brasil essentially dedicates her image to working with social causes and towards social change. The goal is to try to get people to reach a higher level of social consciousness. I have to really know what I’m talking about, I can’t just talk the talk. I really have to know about sustainability. For example, this Friday I’m going to be going to a lecture on sustainability.

Ines: Is sustainability something you feel really passionate about?
Luciana: It’s really funny because my friends make fun of me, saying that I’ve always been “Miss Ecology.” Ever since I was little I couldn’t stand seeing people litter. This comes from my upbringing. When we littered, my father would make us go back and pick up the trash. So my friends say, “Of course you won the contest, it had to be you.”

I guess I’ve always had this environmental consciousness. I just didn’t have as much knowledge about it as I do now. So the cause really does speak to me. I cared about it ever since I was a young child.

Ines: What is beauty?
Luciana: Beauty is ample. The standards of beauty today aren’t the same as the standards a few years ago. Beauty standards are constantly adapting themselves. They are created by society. Often, in beauty contests it’s not the girl who is most beautiful, in the physical sense, who wins. I think that beauty, independently of the era, is a combination of attitude, elegance, intelligence, and charisma.

If someone is beautiful on the inside, I think that transpires. So I disagree when I hear people saying, “It’s a beauty contest not an IQ contest.” It seems cliché, but beauty encompasses so many things. That’s why I really value the Miss World contest, because I think they realize this.

Ines: Yes. It’s interesting that the candidates are currently high achievers. They speak various languages, and usually have at least one University diploma.
Luciana: Definitely. The thing is that beauty queens have always been really stereotyped. There’s still a lot of prejudice. People imagine a beautiful woman with no brains. They think of someone who is totally innocent and naïve.

A lot of people will remark that I’m quiet but really astute. I think we have to preserve our innocence in regards to some things, but you also have to be conscious of other people’s not so good intentions.

For instance, you have to understand that after you win a title, many men are going to come after you, saying the things you want to hear. But the truth is, they see the title and not the person. It’s important to know how to separate things.

I’m a very realistic person. So, for a man to say certain things, I think he needs to know you very well. I’m not fooled by words. There are girls that will believe whatever they hear. Men are “trained” to say what we want to hear.

Sometimes it’s really funny because you hear the same lines over and over again, and then you know something is wrong! Like guys saying, “You are the most beautiful woman I’ve ever seen.” That sort of thing doesn’t have value for me.

Ines: Does the idea of “judgment” ever bother you? Do you ever feel like an object being judged in this contest, in the sense that maybe people don’t end up seeing what’s inside, but just focus on your appearance?
Luciana: Sometimes you do feel like an object. People see you, they judge you on your appearance, but they don’t know you.

Ines: What about the idea of body image, do you feel there are some unrealistic ideas on the body? And is it difficult being a woman in this sort of environment?
Luciana: A little while ago, a law passed stating that models could only work if they had a certain level of body fat. A lot of models have died from anorexia. The standards of fashion are very rigid and quite cruel. After all, the model is a human being. A lot of people forget that. They see you as a Barbie, who doesn’t have any feelings.

I don’t think the beauty standards are going to change. Why do models have to be so thin? The reason is that the model can’t be attracting too much attention. The clothes need to be attracting the attention. Models have to be like walking clothes hangers. The good thing about the Miss Mundo contest is that you feel and are treated more like a human being.

Ines: Since you are involved in both, what do you perceive as the main differences between Modeling and participating in a Beauty Pageant?
Luciana: The model needs to sell clothes or a product. With Miss Mundo, it’s really the opposite. She needs to show the jury who she really is. She dedicates her image to social action and social change. The Miss is an example, especially for kids. Actually one time, I was walking by this little girl and her mother. Her mother said, “Look honey, it’s Barbie.” And the little girl looked at me, with sparkling eyes. That experience really made me think. I realized the responsibility involved in being Miss Mundo Brasil. A child looks at you, and tries to be like you. You become an ideal, not just in terms of beauty, in terms of everything. That’s why you have a much bigger responsibility than a model for instance. You can’t be drinking, or dating in public. You have to be a lady. You have to take care of your image. You really become an example and a point of reference.

Ines: The Miss World contest is the oldest surviving beauty pageant. From your perspective how have the standards of beauty changed?
Luciana: In the past, the winners of the Miss Mundo and Miss World contest had curves. The really skinny ones rarely won. Of course, this is changing today. I find this a bit sad. The Miss Mundo contest is also following the standards of the fashion industry.

Ines: What do you want to accomplish in your life?
Luciana: I want a career in Journalism. I also want to write books.

By Ines Schinazi

Don Tapscott is a visionary. He is the co-author of one of today’s best-selling Management books, “Wikinomics: How Mass Collaboration Changes Everything.”  His avant-garde thinking has resulted in such brilliantly precocious works as his book about the Internet written in 1981, as well as his innovative vision of a collaborative workplace in “Wikinomics.”  In this exclusive interview with Talking About Generations, he shares his vision of the workplace, offering insights about the future, predicting a rupture in the current relationship between companies and employees, starting with changes in Recruitment and Selection processes.

Ines:  In an interview at Google, you discuss the issue of timing in regards to your writing. Your avant-garde nature and forward thinking becomes extremely apparent.  You wrote a book about the Internet in 1981, and another about the privacy of the web in the mid 90’s.  Obviously, this was before most people could even begin to merely grasp these issues.  So, what issues are you exploring right now?
Don: Currently I am writing a new book with Anthony Williams, my co-author of Wikinomics.  The working title is:  Rebuilding the World for the Age of Networked Intelligence.  We believe that many of the institutions around us are nearing the end of their life cycle. They need to be dramatically overhauled and in many cases replaced.

Ines: In “Wikinomics” and in several of your articles, you present the vision of a hyper-collaborative workplace, where traditional hierarchies make way for two-way conversations. This happens both between employers and employees, but also moves outside the business, actually giving consumers a role as collaborators.  Obviously, this has endless positive aspects to it, but what, if any, are the negative sides to this new model?
Don:  I don’t see negative sides, but there will be challenges.  For example, as companies become more transparent and corporate boundaries are more porous, companies will have to balance candor and confidentiality

Ines: From your perspective, what will the workplace look like in 5 years?
Don: Many baby boomer bosses will have retired (assuming they can afford to) and many Net Geners will have positions of authority.  I think you will see a change in the tone of the workplace.  In Wikinomics we talked about the army marching in lockstep to tightly arranged military music is a metaphor for yesterday’s workplace.  But the workplace of the future will be more like a jazz ensemble—where musicians improvise creatively around an agreed key, melody, and tempo. Employees are developing their own self-organized interconnections and forming cross-functional teams capable of interacting as a global, real-time workforce. Loosening organizational hierarchies and giving more power to employees can lead to faster innovation, lower cost structures, greater agility, improved responsiveness to customers, and more authenticity and respect in the marketplace.

Ines: In the article “Ideagora, a marketplace for minds” you argue that “…many of the best people are to be found outside your corporate walls.”  You state, “R&D labs would be ambidextrous: building on core capabilities internally, while acquiring the greatest, most complementary ideas externally.”
Don: At his recent Sao Paulo lecture, Mark Zuckerberg spoke to this exact idea. He stated that the best Facebook applications, were not built by those with the most resources, or from large corporations. Rather, the best ideas came from creative individuals, who were often “outside” of the corporate world, much like Zuckerberg himself, when he founded Facebook.

Ines: Obviously, the digital world gives us countless resources to find innovation outside corporate walls. But in your opinion, does this trend also reflect on the nature of the corporate world?  Are corporations not giving their internal employees enough creative freedom?
Don:  I agree.  Companies should be giving employees much more freedom.  They feel constrained while those “outside” do not.  It goes to the jazz band metaphor I used above.  Employees need the latitude to experiment and be creative.

Ines: While you seem to understand this generation, almost as if it were your own, not everyone is so open-minded.  Do you think we’re in for a deep generational clash as the net generation floods into the workplace?
Don:  Absolutely, and it’s already begun.  Teenagers and young adults entering the workplace are frequently met with hostility.  Older workers begrudge the younger generation’s sense of entitlement and what they misinterpret as arrogance.  Employers who don’t create the proper climate for this new generation are going to suffer a backlash.

For starters, I think the old HR model – recruit, train, supervise and retain – should be shelved. Instead, companies should adopt a new model – initiate, engage, collaborate and evolve. Companies have many ways to make themselves more attractive to a potential N-Gen employee: they can customize job descriptions, as Deloitte does; use game-based training to train employees for short-term projects; keep in touch with alumnae, the former employees, to find new people and get new ideas. Old-style job interviews are out. Two-way dialogues are the way to hire. And the first three months is a time when the employee is evaluating the company, not the other way round.

I think the Net Gen can help companies win, period. My research shows that companies that selectively and effectively embrace Net Gen norms perform better than those that don’t. In fact, I’m convinced that the Net Gen culture is the new culture of work. The Net Gen norms I describe in this book may turn out to be the key indicators of high performing organizations in the 21st century.

I should add that one of the best examples of a company that understands the value of Net Generation thinking is electronics retailing giant Best Buy. Recently retired CEO, Brad Anderson, says that the most important people in the company are the tens of thousands of young people in blue shirts that work in the stores. Anderson told me these young employees “are closest to our customers, are most like our customers, and their culture is the culture of the 21st century Best Buy.”

Anderson says that his job was not so much to make decisions but rather to create the conditions in which his young customer-facing employees can self organize and help re-invent the company. The company has an online social network where 25,000 young employees regularly gather to brainstorm and share insights. Management pays attention. Anderson says he is in the business of “unleashing the power of Net Generation human capital.”

Ines: In the article “Focus on the Net Gen Family” you find that this generation has closer ties with their parents than baby boomers ever did. This generation has grown up with a less authoritarian model of family, and more of a two-way conversation between parents and children.

Yet, as these kids enter schools and the workplace, they often don’t find that two-way conversation.  Rather, they’re usually confronted with a more traditional model.

In this current transitional moment, before institutions have time to really start adapting and changing, what’s the key to reconciling the “new ways” of the family, with the more traditional aspects of institutions like school and the workplace?
Don: I think adults have to understand the harm they can cause by refusing to change their ways.  For the corporate executive, as I just discussed above, this refusal jeopardizes the long-term health of the company.  To help senior management understand, companies should try reverse mentoring:  Senior personnel becoming the “mentees” of young employees.  Learn from these kids.  Understand the appeal of sites such as Facebook, and why the company should #1) not prohibit access from company computers, and #2) explore ways to use it as a business tool, as many companies have done.

Ines: You often write about how businesses and institutions should adapt to this new generation.  However, do you feel this generation also needs to adapt to older generations?
Don:  I think the issue is less to “adapt” and more to understand what motivates and shapes the attitudes of older generations.  They too are products of their upbringing and experiences.  We could all benefit from more dialogue

Ines: I recently interviewed Dr. Gary Small, a leading neurologist, who argues that the Internet is changing our brain.  He is also a digital advocate, but worries that young people are at risk of losing their social skills all together if their digital-use becomes too excessive.

You seem to take a different view.  In “How Technology has Changed the Brain,” you state “By their 20s, young people will have spent more than 30,000 hours on the Internet and playing video games. That’s not such a bad thing.”

Do you think the net-generation’s face-to-face skills will suffer as the world becomes increasingly digital?
Don: No. The increasingly digital world is an increasingly interactive world.  Kids aren’t at home staring dumbly at screens.  They are in constant communication with their peers, through phone calls or texting or writing on Facebook walls.  They know how to relate with others.

Ines: You talk about how your own children have been quite instrumental in sparking your research, as you saw them “growing up digital.”  In between writing “Growing up Digital” and “Grown up Digital,” what (if any) were the biggest surprises you encountered in regards to this generation?

Don: I was surprised and delighted with just how quickly the Net Generation adapts.  When I wrote Growing Up Digital the web was still largely a publishing medium. Companies and others posted information online for other to consume.  Since then, of course, the Web has become much more a collaborative tool, often referred to as Web 2.0.  With their early adoption of tools such as IM, texting, collaborating with wikis, use of social media, and so on, the Net Generation continues to innovate and show leadership.

Ines: How does the unequal distribution of resources fit into wikinomics?  You mention that increasingly innovative talent will be located in BRIC countries.  Yet, how does extreme inequality and disparity of basic resources, not to mention the lack of access to technology and the Internet make this growth possible, and not reserved to a tiny elite?
Don: The current inequities in global wealth distribution are unconscionable.  More than one billion people on this planet have no reliable access to potable water. I’ve written about the dangers of the digital divide for many years.  To participate in a digital world people need the proper tools, and I heartily endorse the efforts to make digital technologies more widely available.  Fortunately the tools are more powerful, more versatile and less expensive every day.  But we should be doing much more.

Ines: What happens as information becomes increasingly free?  Is the general trend going to be to move from a product to a service, as you suggest with music for instance?
Don: Yes. Why would I want to buy tunes for my iPod when I can have any song in the world streamed to my portable device for a few dollars a month?  This will be true of more and more products as devices gain access to a wireless, broadband, continuous Internet.  Do you really want a newspaper put on your doorstep every morning with its small snippets of yesterday’s news?  Not really.  What you want is to have timely knowledge of what is going on in your world.

Ines: In the article “Net Gen Transforms Marketing,” you clearly express how marketers must change to adapt to this generation. From your perspective, are billboards, traditional ads, and the TV commercials, going to die out completely?
Don: Billboards will survive.  But as we see in Times Square, they will be electronic and constantly changing.  As newspapers and magazines stop publishing print versions and go online ­­– which will happen much sooner than most people think — traditional ads will disappear.  TV commercials will soon be relics.  Televisions will soon be relics.  Today kids look at a typewriter and say “what’s that?”  Tomorrow they’ll be saying the same thing about TVs.

Ines: While most people are bashing my generation, you’ve been incredibly generous, perhaps our biggest advocate.  What exactly makes you so optimistic about this generation?
Don: I think I have a big advantage over many cynics.  I have children. They give me great hope.

By Ines Schinazi

John G. Drozdal, Ed.D., is Principal Consultant and President of The Drozdal Company – an organization development and training firm that specializes in generational issues in the workplace, manager/leader development, team building, executive coaching, and conflict transformation. A complete description of the company’s services is available at www.drozdalcompany.com.

Dr. John Drozdal is also the voice behind two blogs, www.workingwithotherscom and www.workingwithtwentysomethings.com that focus on helping people remember what they learned in kindergarten: how to work and play well with others!

Dr. Drozdal graduated from Princeton University with an AB in Social Psychology, and he holds MA and MBA degrees from The University of Minnesota.  He completed his Ed.D. at The University of St. Thomas in St. Paul, Minnesota.  From 1988 to 2005 Dr. Drozdal served as adjunct professor in the Executive MBA Program in the College of Business at The University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and has also taught at the Anderson Schools of Management at the University of New Mexico. For the last several years he has been a guest contributor to various newspapers including the Albuquerque (NM) Journal and Rio Rancho (NM) Observer.

Ines:  Could you talk about what drew you to found “The Drozdal Company?”

John:  I started thinking about it in the late 1980’s and finally got it launched in 1991.  In the United States, in Kindergarten, there’s a category we get evaluated on called “works and plays well with others.”  We make a judgment about how well the little kids do that.  A lot of the curriculum and the learning is about teaching kids how to work and play with others.  For some reason, after that first year of school, that emphasis goes away.  People go through High School, University, Graduate school, and they learn how to do things.  Then we throw them into the workplace and ask them to “work and play well with others,” and somehow they’ve forgotten how to do that.

So I wanted to start a company to help people remember what they learned in Kindergarten-how to work and play well with others.  So through the years I’ve really focused on that activity.

That involves teaching leaders how to lead, managers how to manage, and teams how to work effectively together.  I do a lot of training, team building, and team interventions, and quite a bit of one-on-one coaching with my clients.

I first started thinking about workplace issues, when I finished High School.  When I first graduated High School I was looking for a job to earn some money before I went off to college.  The principal at my High School heard about this job at a water utility company.  So I went down there for the interview, and they hired me on the spot.  My job for the summer was going to be to organize the filing system.

The first day on the job, this older guy takes me down to the basement, into this big room, filled with files that are just everywhere, in total disorganization.  He said “OK, your job for the summer is to organize these files, you might want to wear old clothes.”  That was all the work direction I got, and I was sitting in that room thinking, “I really should have taken that job painting fire hydrants, at least I could see the results.”  Fortunately, one of this guy’s direct reports came down to look for a file.  I was sitting there, and he asked me why I looked so bummed.  So I told him, and he said, “Oh, that boss isn’t a very good boss.”  He actually taught me the basic organizing principals to get my job done, which is what the manager should have done.

When you have a new employee, you want to teach the employee how to do their job, and a lot of managers miss that part.  Anyways, during the course of the summer, people would come down, while I was working on these files, and tell me their life stories, and how unhappy they were in the workplace.   The themes that emerged were usually not feeling part of the work environment, not feeling valued in terms of contributions they made.  I think that’s where the seed was planted and I started thinking maybe I could make a difference in this area and help people learn how to work together.  It just took a while for me to have enough experience on my own where I felt confident in terms of what I could do.

Also, in terms of generational differences in the workplace, there are systems of training that work for particular workers, but don’t necessarily work for the other generations that have come through, especially in terms of teaching them.

I think one of the best examples I can give is the way medical training is done, particularly in the United States.  It’s really an endurance test to see how sleep deprived you can be and still function.  That’s the way medical training was historically done in the United States.  Now people are realizing that it’s not the best idea to have an intern in their 36^th hour of rotation having to make a life or death decision for a patient.  It’s also true in the legal profession.  Law firms will hire junior associates and work them into the ground, because that’s the way it’s always been.

I think one of the great things about the millennial generation is that they’re asking the question “Why do you do things this way?  There’s a better way to do this.”  So there’s the clash of the old way of doing things versus the new way.

Ines:  How do you see the workplace evolving as this new generation of digital natives floods into the workplace?

John:  I think there are going to be fairly dramatic changes.  As with many change processes, you’re always going to have resistance to change, on the part of people who can be affected by it.  If we look historically at major social changes, there’s always been a “push-back” from the existing way of doing things.  I think the organizations that are going to survive and thrive, are going to be those who see the new ideas and the polarity.  In other words, it’s a both/and conversation.  It’s not about replacing the old with the new, or clinging for dear life to the way organizations have always done things.  It’s really about blending the two together. Those are the organizations that will survive.

Ines:  Do you agree with what many people have been saying about a great shift in the definition of the employee?  Are we moving towards a market with many freelance employees instead of the more traditional full-time employees in an organization?

John:  I am seeing it occurring.  I think it’s too early to see how that’s going to shake out.  At heart, I’m a freelancer.  I think one of the things that I needed to learn about myself is that I have the DNA of a freelancer.  When you work for yourself, it can be pretty scary. You have to go find the work all the time.  For some people, that really resonates with them, and others really struggle with that.  So to say that we are going to change to an economy of freelancers, I’m not sure that’s really going to happen.  What I do think is that we’re in a time when the traditional corporate structure is being called into question. What may happen is that people within organizations are looking for more freedom to create within that organizational structure.

Ines:  How does your background in Social Psychology mixed in with your Business credentials help you in dealing with generations in the workplace?

John:  I’m fascinated about how we can improve relationships in general, but particularly relationships in the workplace.  For me, it comes down to three things.  1.  Helping people be self-aware of who they are. That self-awareness is their style, point of view, biases, and competencies 2.  Being able to appreciate the points of views of other people, their style, and how they work.  3.   The willingness to find a common ground without being judgmental.

When I was an undergraduate, my senior thesis was in an area of Social Psychology called “Attribution Theory.”  Attribution theory has to do with how we make judgments about people based on their appearance or about what they say initially.  Based on my study, I found that people were in fact making judgments based on appearances.

I think that when we look at having four generations in the workplace now, we can all be guilty of making stereotypical judgments about people.  We see it all the time, with boomers for instance, seeing the millennial generation come into the workplace with tattoos, piercings, and flip flops.  They make a whole set of assumptions about that person.  When in fact, if they really listened to the individual and took time to get to know them, they could see that they could offer extremely positive contributions to the workplace.

The reverse of that is that the millennial generation will also come into the organization and see this person with white hair or no hair, and make the assumption that they’re too old. “They should just leave now, and let us have our turn.”

My background in Psychology has really giving me an appreciation for the human condition and the fact that everybody has a gift that they bring into the workplace, if we just take time to understand what that is, we could have much more productive work environments.

Ines:  What are your thoughts on this idea of a “brain gap” between digital natives and digital immigrants?

John:  I just want to preface my answer.  I have thoughts but they’re not necessarily in my area of expertise. I do think that there’s some credence to the fact that digital natives are wired differently.  There’s a difference in the way digital natives process information.  The metaphor I find really helpful, is that for digital natives technology is their first language, for generation X it’s their second language and they’re very fluent in it, for boomers it’s like learning a language later in life.  It can be done, but it takes a lot of effort.

Ines:  Are most of the issues you try to solve, products of generational differences or issues you feel are independent of generations?

John:  I think it’s a combination of the two.  I think that to help generations work effectively in the workplace, all generations need to be self-aware, understand the other’s point of view, and have the willingness to work together.  But I think when you have those generational differences, it’s like any other difference in the workplace, it increases the need for good organizational practices.

One of the things I come across very often is the millennial generation saying they really want their manager to manage them.  But one of the things that every manager dreads is being labeled a micro-manager.  That’s not generational, it’s across the board.

As a result of this fear, managers will do things to not over-manage.  Gen Y is saying, “I want to learn, I need more feedback on how I’m doing, I’d like more of your time.”  What the millennial generation is doing is asking managers to provide what I call “good managing practices,” in spending time with their employees, finding out what they need to be effective, and providing that so they can be more effective.  The generational difference is pushing the need for good organizational practices.

Ines:  In terms of the people I’ve interviewed, there seems to be quite a lot of debate as to whether or not there’s in fact a serious generational gap.  What’s your view?

John:  I think organizations are going to have to change, and they’re not really going to have a choice.  The younger generations are going to be replacing some of the older workers.  There needs to be a dialogue between the older and younger generations.  The younger generations are coming in with the new ideas, a new way of working, and a whole new view on what the world is about.  The older generation feels dismissed.  What reduces this tension is having the older generation’s fear of losing the old way of doing things minimized, by respecting their experience.

What’s also interesting is that generation Y is coming into the workplace and asking the questions that baby boomers wish they had asked.  For example, with the whole work-balance thing, boomers aren’t necessarily happy about being workaholics. But they weren’t sure how to break the cycle.

Also, the whole generation that’s forgotten is Generation X. They are wondering why everyone is putting all this emphasis on the millennial generation.  They’re saying “What about us?”  Generation X is product of single parent homes, or dual-income homes, and so they learned to be self-reliant, and brought that independence into the workplace.

There’s a tension between Gen X and Gen Y that not a lot of places are paying attention to.  Gen X is being lost in the conversation and I think that’s a mistake. The Gen X employee also needs to be recognized in terms of contributions they can make.

Even in the way we talk about this generation, we use the letter “X.”  There are 26 letters in the alphabet and we picked the one that typically means unknown…

Ines:  You recently started the blog, “working with twenty something’s.” I’m curious as to why this blog is separate from the “working with others” blog. Also, could you talk a bit about what you’re trying to accomplish through these two blogs?

John: When I was in college and coming out of college, the term that was used was “generation gap.” I was experiencing many things that Gen Y is now experiencing.  I wanted to create a forum for helping this generation make a successful transition into the world of work, and to provide insights, mentoring opportunities, and create a dialogue.   Working with others is about working relationships in general.  I wanted to use the “working with twenty something’s” to look at generational differences and how that impacts working relationships.  I really see an opportunity in developing working relationships.  With my life experiences, I feel this is an opportunity to give back and to mentor, and to help this younger generation come along and not make the same mistakes I’ve made.

Ines:  In one of your blog posts, you mention the perspective of a “Christian Scientist Monitor” article.  The article argues that “The Devil wears Prada” is this generation’s coming of age movie.  Do you agree? Also, what does it signify to shift from “The Graduate,” to “Risky Business” to “The Devil wears Prada, in terms of coming of age movies?”

John:  I know with the boomer generation, pretty much every boomer knows the line in “The Graduate,” about plastics.  There’s that famous scene, Benjamin has just graduated from college and one of the guests comes up to him and says, “I have one word for you…plastics.”  That’s the sort of corporate structure to get into.

If you accept that Generation X is pretty independent and had to fend for themselves, “Risky Business” illustrates this total free-for-all exploration for independence.

With “The Devil Wears Prada,” I can see how it captures some themes regarding this generation.  If you look at Andy’s friends, they are a very diverse group.  One of the things that I love about the millennial generation is that diversity isn’t an issue for them.  They grew up with diversity.  They have friends from all walks of life.  The other thing that’s really interesting in the movie is the whole tension of getting caught up in the rat race of success, and sort of selling your soul to the corporation.  It’s the whole work-life balance thing that comes into stark reality. Is it the quintessential coming of age movie?  I don’t know.   But it does illustrate a lot of struggles of the millennial generation.  I can see how people would say that it’s the coming of age movie for the millennial generation.

Carol Phillips is the president and founder of the brand strategy consulting firm “Brand Amplitude.” She is also a Professor at the prestigious University of Notre Dame.

Carol began her career as a market researcher and strategic planner at Leo Burnett. Later, as an Account Director, she led agency teams at four different agencies – Y&R, Leo Burnett, Mullen and JWT – for a variety of clients including Sprint, Nextel, Ameritech, Heinz, 7UP, and Philip Morris.

In an exclusive interview, she shares her thoughts on how the millennial generation is changing the art of Marketing.

Ines: On your blog you write about how your interest in the millennial generation began 5 years ago, when they began to enter your college classroom. You explain that it was impossible not to notice how different this generation was. Can you talk about the differences you noticed back then and the differences you see today?
Carol: I think one of the first things was that they didn’t deal with ambiguity very well. They wanted a lot of structure, and they wanted to know exactly how to do it right.
I think one of my blog posts was called “The Professor’s Lament,” and I joked that if you asked them to memorize the alphabet by tomorrow, they would come back and ask you “which alphabet?” “Do you want it backwards or forwards?” “Can we sing it?” They need a lot of assurance that they are doing it right. I also found that I couldn’t make any changes, like I couldn’t say, “Oh, I found a new way to do this…”
I think the biggest surprise was how little they actually knew about Marketing. I was teaching “The Basics of Marketing.” As the most marketed-to generation, I expected them to be much more sophisticated, and they weren’t, and I found all of this really surprising. I jotted down some thoughts, and sent them to “Ad Age,” and they published it. This was in 2006…that was when some of the first articles started coming out about the millennial generation, so I just joined the conversation.

Ines: In your opinion, how should businesses successfully market to the millennial generation? And what exactly does it mean to reach this generation by being “quick,” “meaningful,” and “shiny” as your blog suggests?
Carol: I didn’t create that set of words, I found it in a Gen Y article by a young Canadian planner, and she’s fine with me using it. I think that it does kind of summarize what Gen Y is about. They’re pretty suspicious of advertising and distrustful. They look at everything with a cynical eye. They’re much more trusting of information that comes from their friends, or other sources, than they are from advertising. I think what they don’t realize is that advertising isn’t allowed to lie. So I think there are some implications there for marketers: don’t spend a lot of time making elaborate claims. They’re not going to pay any attention to them. You really want to spend more time building a relationship based on something that matters to them. And they have a lot of things that matter to them, particularly in the area of “cause marketing.” That’s what I mean by “meaningful.” So it’s not only relevant to the product, but also relevant to other things that they’re interested in. Also, I think I was quoted as saying “There’s a special place in branding hell for brands that say one thing, and do another, with the millennial generation.” They value authenticity.
When you look at the brands they like, some people are surprised to see they’re the brands that everyone likes: Apple, Coca Cola, Vogue Magazine. Well, there’s a reason for that. These are brands that have a long history of being authentic, and saying what they’re going to do.
As far as the “shiny” part goes, they love things that are flashy and new, like the latest technology, so you don’t want to come at them with the simple, tired, stuff.

Ines: In the article, “Millennials: Clued in or Clueless,” you find that “…students take it as a matter of faith that advertisements mislead consumers about the truth of a product’s performance…and are all too ready to believe that ads use a host of subliminal messages to improve product perceptions.” More so, we know that this generation prefers listening to their peers, rather than relying on a brand, and that they are quite skeptical in general, which is also very clear in your article “What Millennials think of Social Media.”
Are we moving towards a world where it’s more about the “person” behind the brand and a sort of “peer-to-peer,” “word of mouth,” marketing?
Carol: I think it’s always been about the person behind the brand. I teach my students that your brand has a message, but it also has a personality. The personality is not what you do, it’s how you do it. The most important thing with personality is to be consistent. There’s a great F. Scott Fitzgerald quote, “…personality is nothing other than consistency and gesture.” And it’s really true. I think what we’re finding now with the “personalization,” of everything on the web, is that the brands that do have a consistent, recognizable, personality, are the ones that are going to succeed the most.
I had a blog post where I said that one of the reasons brands struggled on Facebook initially, was that they were still behaving like brands instead of a person, and you go to Facebook to learn about people. So brands needed to talk about the parties they’re throwing, and show pictures, and do things that people do, not talk in terms of “brand talk.” I think they’re starting to get it, and that’s why Facebook is becoming profitable finally!

Ines: In the book, “Next: A vision of our lives in the future,” the authors express a paradox about this generation, characterizing them as individuals who are nostalgic for a past they haven’t lived. This is seen through the ways they cling to old music idols like Mick Jagger and Madonna, or even Michael Jackson. The authors argue that a paradox lies in the way this generation values some things from the past, while completely rejecting other things.
Do you also see this generational paradox? If so, how does one go about marketing to this ambiguity, thus having to reconcile the past and the future?
Carol: I watched “That 70’s show” last night with my 15-year-old son. I had never seen it before. He loves that show. The 70’s was my childhood, and yet he does relate to that. I think that with the millennial generation, their values are not any different from traditional values, but they’re more culturally liberal. They still value honesty, creativity, family, and success. There’s really no difference in terms of what they value. What they’re doing, is putting a different spin on it. They’re redefining what success means. They’re redefining the role of creativity in their lives, of self-expression. They’re redefining what family means.
I think one of the brilliant things about the “ABC Family Channel” is that it gets that! If you watch those shows, they’re not the way they were even 3 years ago. They’re multicultural, they’re dealing with issues that real families are dealing with, and they show multiple generations liking each other! There’s been a shift. So it isn’t that the values are different, it’s just a different interpretation.

Ines: Where do you think the relatively new art of blogging is headed? Are blogs a way for companies to speak and advertise to the millennial generation?
Carol: Absolutely. A lot of millenials blog, but not all of them, but they do read blogs. There’s a great site, “Brazen Careerist.” Penelope Trunk is amazing, she’s created a community of Gen Y bloggers, and I think we’re going to see more of that. Her community is around work, but I think there are other communities that are going to spring up, and are springing up. I mean, look at “Deviant Art.” There are communities around cooking, wine, and very specialized interests. All marketers have to do, is rather than create a community, just join it, join the conversation…

Ines: More and more, we see advertising campaigns that are pretty interactive, like the “T-Mobile sing along.”The consumer becomes a participant, rather than just a passive buyer. How do you see the role of the millennial consumer evolving?
Carol: I think we are going to see more and more of that. At first, there were very few campaigns that were participatory like that, now there’s a lot. Last Christmas, Starbucks did their “Project Red Campaign.” Now we’re seeing a lot of crowd sourcing which is interesting. Dunkin Donuts had huge success with “Design a Donut.” I think we’re going to see more and more things like this.

Ines: In Sao Paulo, I’ve recently noticed that there have been a few “temporary stores” opening.
The design is extremely elaborate, and nothing implies that this store would be temporary. Yet, they open with the intention of being open for a couple months, clearly a way to advertise their brand, on a well-known street. Are we moving towards a world that’s like our online world, where things are more and more temporary, including physical stores?
Carol: I think the Temporary store is a really interesting phenomenon. I think Jc Penney did it first in Times Square, and they got a lot of attention with that. It’s a really another form of advertising, it’s just much more experiential. It’s not cheap but I think it has incredible impact. It’s a great way to reach young people who aren’t likely to pay attention any other way.

Ines: You talk about how this generation enjoys somewhat sophisticated pleasures, and “living large,” at least in terms of wine and gourmet foods. This doesn’t seem to change even in a recession. What do you think the desire for these products says about this generation?
Carol: Well I think it says a lot about the way they were raised. They grew up in a very economically prosperous time. Their parents were better educated than parents had been before. They got exposed to very sophisticated things early on, and more of them have traveled.
I think the whole interest in things like cooking, wine, and fashion, is driven partly by self-expression, but also those are things you can share. They’re incredibly functional. You can talk about wine, and you can talk about food. It’s an experience that’s communal.

Ines: But you also present a paradox. Most of the college students you know, if not all, consider themselves poor, but still indulge in these pleasures. What are your thoughts on that?
Carol: I think they do think of themselves as cash-strapped, even the ones who by normal standards are living pretty well. I don’t think they are ever not going to think of themselves as frugal. They’re careful shoppers, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t buy things that they perceive as a “need.”
I think that’s the challenge for marketers. Move things out of that “nice to have” and into the “must have” category.

Ines: That’s why you also mention that it’s not smart to position your brand as luxury?
Carol: I don’t think so, though there have been several brands that have been doing just that, and are enjoying some success, so maybe I’m wrong. The Burberry campaign with Emma Watson seems to be successful. And a Burberry coat is a luxury, by any standards! You know, girls want the fancy bags. How I reconcile that is I think they move that expensive bag into a “must have” category, so it’s not a luxury for them. In the same way, that a Mac Book, is a must-have, as opposed to something half the price, which is just as functional.

Ines: How does your role as a mother and Professor impact, shape, and influence, the work you do? It’s interesting because both these roles make it so that you’re very connected to this generation. Do you see this shaping what you choose to study, and the lens through which you perceive and examine things?
Carol: Absolutely. I was putting together a presentation for a major entertainment client. One of the things they commented on, on my draft, is that it pulls on everything. It pulls on my own experience in the classroom, and with my kids. It pulls on anecdotal data from Gen Y blogs and Twitter. It pulls on secondary research, and it pulls very heavily on my own research. We [Brand Amplitude] do a lot of client work, about the millennial generation for major brands. Also, we’ve done a lot of studies for ourselves, like the one on social media, and the millennial generation in the workplace.
So I think we’re at the cutting edge of a lot of these things. And that’s partly because I’ve got my ear to the ground, both personally and professionally.

Read more about Carol Phillips: http://millennialmarketing.com

By Ines Schinazi

Perhaps what makes Generation Y’s educational experience most different from the experience of past generations is the overwhelming presence of technology in the classroom, and all the implications this brings.

While cell phones and laptops are often considered to be distractions in school, they can also be powerful learning tools, as demonstrated by UT Dallas Professor Monica Rankin in “The Twitter Experiment.”

Prof Rankin explains that she saw an opportunity to use “…the technology and equipment that students are very comfortable using already, and incorporate that into what we’re doing in the classroom to give them an alternative and a new way to learn.”

The Twitter Experiment makes us think about how technology is “flattening” education. Twitter changes traditional class dynamics, stimulating more dialogue within class, while also allowing for class information to be diffused to a global audience.

Prof Rankin describes her own Undergrad experience as consisting mostly of “…the kind of talking head at the front of the room, addressing a large group of students, and the students passively trying to absorb all that information.” She says, “There was very little interaction between the Professor and the students.”

While there are obviously many problems that come with using Twitter in class, the playing field between Professors and students is leveled, as communication between both parties is facilitated, stimulating a dialogue rather than an ongoing lecture. As Prof Rankin demonstrates, Twitter allows her to achieve a level of class participation that would otherwise be impossible in such a large class.

The “flattening” of education also transcends the classroom walls, flowing into the larger realm of society, making the information discussed in Rankin’s class, available to anyone who can access Twitter. As Cameron Quitugua, one of Prof Rankin’s students, explains, “We’re putting stuff that college students are paying for to learn, out on the Internet, and that college students are researching, out on the Internet, for other people to find. I’m really big on Wikipedia and the ability for you to find whatever you need to know on the Internet. For us to put more History and knowledge out there, through intelligent discussion, is pretty cool.”

In an exclusive interview, Prof Rankin speaks about her experiences conducting the “Twitter Experiment” as well as her thoughts on the growing intersection between Education and Technology.

Image: Professora Monica Rankin
Ines: In the video “The Twitter Experiment” you state that prior to the experiment, you weren’t really familiar with Twitter yourself. So what exactly drove you to incorporate Twitter in your class?
Prof Rankin: That’s exactly right. I had never used Twitter. I had heard about it, but I didn’t know a lot about it. What I did know, was that people could send updates through computers or by text messaging from their cell phones. I was teaching in a classroom that had limited technology already built-in for students. A lot of students would bring a laptop to class, but not all of them, and everyone brings a cell phone to class. Some professors are upset by this, and try to ban cell phones, since they see this as a distraction. But I was thinking maybe there’s a way to incorporate the technology and this equipment that students are very comfortable using already, and incorporate that into what we’re doing in the classroom to give them an alternative and a new way to learn.

Ines: Clearly, Twitter successfully encourages a great deal of student participation. From your experience, why do you think this is?
Prof Rankin: I think there are a couple of things. To be very practical about it, students found it interesting. It was different and I think that attracted their attention to start with. This is something that many of us had never seen in a classroom before, certainly not in a class of this size with 90 students. So I think just having a slightly different approach automatically peaks their interest a little bit. But further than that, I think that our use of Twitter really appeals to a lot of students who might not be comfortable in a traditional classroom discussion setting. In any typical discussion that I’ve done regardless of the class size, usually what you will have is about 10% of the class dominates the discussion. The vast majority of the class may say one or two comments, but they remain pretty quiet. Then you have another 10 % of the class who says absolutely nothing. Well I think that Twitter changes that dynamic significantly and it allows people, who’s strength might not be speaking in front of large groups of people, it allows them to have an opportunity to play to their strengths. It gives them the opportunity to incorporate things they are comfortable with into the learning environment. It changes the dynamic quite a bit. I was really pleased with what I saw happening in the classroom for the most part. I think certainly there are a lot of problems with Twitter. It wasn’t the ideal solution, but I think that with what we had to work with in the classroom, and what we had access to, it was one of the best solutions we could have found for that particular semester.

Ines: You mention how the “140 characters” limits the sorts of comments students can make, but at the same time really forces them to make a concise argument, which they often have trouble doing. However, from your perspective, do you think 140 characters risks making class discussions too superficial, limiting the ideas or topics one can explore?
Prof Rankin: I suppose there is always that concern. I’m not overly concerned about that myself. I think that the new generation, raised with all this technology, have learned to process information, in a way that us older folks don’t really understand. I think that with having a small snippet of information, a lot of people can take that small snippet, and go through a deeper internal process, of understanding it and analyzing it, and kind of picking it apart. I think that I would prefer students have access to a larger character limit. 140 is really quite limiting. I think that allowing them to form more complete thoughts with a larger character limit, would be highly beneficial. But I also think that forcing them to limit those statements to some extent is a really useful exercise. It really helps them form “to the point,” “concise,” arguments. So I’m not overly concerned about it. I didn’t see that it was a problem, especially the way that we combined Twitter with group discussions. I don’t think Twitter alone is going to be the solution, but combining it in various ways, can help get around some of those limitations.

Ines: In the video, many students seem to like the idea of not having to speak up in front of a large class. Twitter offers that comfort since they can just express their thoughts through writing.
However, do you ever worry that as technology increasingly intersects with education, students may lose the ability to convey their perspective “out loud?”
Prof Rankin: I’m not terribly worried about that. I think that instructors are going to come up with new ways, all the time, to incorporate the various modes of communication. One of the things that we did in the experiment in the classroom, is we actually did have them working in small groups where they were interacting with each other, and then based on what they were talking about in their small groups, that’s what they would “tweet.” So it wasn’t like a classroom of students, completely isolated as individuals, doing nothing but using technology, and not speaking to anyone. There was a lot of face-to-face and personal interaction going on, in their small groups. I was roaming the room the entire time, interacting with the groups as I was going around. So it was kind of a combination of all of these different methods and I think that worked really well. Students could talk to each other in the small group setting, and they could also share their thoughts with a group of 90 people, and do it fairly comfortably.

Ines: As a college educator you prepare your students to enter the workplace. Obviously, the classroom is changing. But how do you think the workplace is changing and does incorporating technology and social media in class help students as they enter the professional world?
Prof Rankin: My impression is that students are going to get far better practice at using technology and social networking than what I can provide in the classroom. I’m certainly not an expert on anything technological or anything having to do with computers or digital media. So the actual “hands on application” of using those kinds of technologies, I think I’m the last person who needs to be training people.
But I do think that what students get exposed to in the classroom are new approaches to using things like this, and new ways to combine technology and Humanities for example, that often times are considered to be at opposite ends of the spectrum. Education is certainly not the only area that’s looking at innovative ways to combine these types of things, and challenge the way that people had traditionally approached these kinds of things. They’re certainly going to face those expectations when they enter the workplace, the kind of “thinking out of the box” and the “looking for alternatives.” So hopefully this exposes them to what some of the possibilities are, and how some people are trying to face those challenges.

Ines: Did you notice any differences in terms of the way female and male students use and interact with Twitter in class?

Prof Rankin: I didn’t actually pay a lot of attention to gender differences. I didn’t do as good of a job as I would have liked in tracking who was using a computer or a cell phone, and we also had a number of students who weren’t comfortable doing either, so they would just handwrite notes. I didn’t think about it early enough in the semester, to actually keep very specific statistics on that kind of information.

Ines: Since you teach History, which is a pretty traditional discipline, did you encounter a lot of resistance, in terms of other Professors or students, as you brought Twitter into class?
Prof Rankin: I wouldn’t really call it resistance on the part of students. I think some students were reluctant to participate in the public forum of Twitter, and others didn’t have the same access to the technology.
Either they didn’t have a laptop that had a wireless connection, or they didn’t have an unlimited texting service on their phone.
I think that a lot of the students who didn’t directly participate opted out of it more for practical reasons, than because they had some fundamental disagreement with what we were doing. But you know, I think others weren’t into social networking and weren’t really comfortable with it, and I think that’s fine.
The reaction I got from other Professors has been mixed. There’s a lot of Professors that have been really interested in it. A lot of my colleagues at UT Dallas have asked for more information and have tried to look at ways to see how they can incorporate similar kinds of experiments in their classrooms. I’ve talked to a number of colleagues at other Universities.
But I’ve talked to other Professors who say that they would want absolutely nothing to do with this kind of thing. That this has no place in the way they conduct their classrooms. And I think that’s fine. I think that’s one of the great things about University Education. Students get access to Professors who use a wide variety of approaches and come at their classrooms with various strategies and variety. So the Professors who are comfortable with it, will start “playing around” with it. Those who aren’t will not, and students will be better off, having those different experiences with those different professors.

Ines: From the Professor standpoint, did you find it at all chaotic or overwhelming to have to field all these Twitter comments in such a large class?
Prof Rankin: I think that it would have been more overwhelming for me, had I not had a really good Teaching Assistant. My TA Megan Malone, was a really integral part in making this successful. She helped to monitor the digital discussion, while we were in the classroom, and while things were unfolding, so that I could be going around the room, and interacting face-to-face with the students. If she hadn’t been helping me “behind the scenes” I think it would have been a very different environment, it would have been much more chaotic, and a lot more for me to handle by myself.

Ines: You make clear how positive Twitter can be in a large class. However, what about using Twitter in smaller classes? Is this something you would consider?
Prof Rankin: I would consider using it for a smaller group. I’ve given it some thought. I think a lot would depend on what we’re trying to do in the class, and what we’re trying to accomplish, and what kind of students are in that class. I’m not using it right now. But I haven’t ruled it out for smaller classes in the future.

Ines: The Twitter experiment makes us think about the ways in which education is evolving. How was your own learning experience in college, most different from the experience of your students today?

Prof Rankin: Well that was a long time ago. But when I was in college there was very little interaction, particularly in some of the traditional courses like my History courses. There was very little interaction between the Professor and the students. Aside from the traditional lecture, [there was] the kind of talking head at the front of the room, addressing a large group of students, and the students passively trying to absorb all of that information. That was the traditional approach, and that was essentially what I was exposed to as an Undergrad. Things are far different today. More often than not, Professors are trying to encourage more interaction from students, a kind of active participation from the students sitting in the classroom, recognizing that there are a lot of benefits to the learning process, as students become more engaged. I think that’s a great advance that Education has made over the last several decades, as more and more Professors are engaging those types of approaches. I think technology will help to facilitate that. Precisely what I was looking for, when I decided use Twitter in the classroom, was to be able to engage 90 students, all at the same time in 50 minutes. And I think the more technology continues to evolve, the more opportunities and options they’re going to be for educators to use technology to help do that.

John G. Drozdal, Ed.D., is Principal Consultant and President of The Drozdal Company – an organization development and training firm that specializes in generational issues in the workplace, manager/leader development, team building, executive coaching, and conflict transformation. A complete description of the company’s services is available at www.drozdalcompany.com.
Dr. John Drozdal is also the voice behind two blogs, www.workingwithotherscom and www.workingwithtwentysomethings.com that focus on helping people remember what they learned in kindergarten: how to work and play well with others!
Dr. Drozdal graduated from Princeton University with an AB in Social Psychology, and he holds MA and MBA degrees from The University of Minnesota. He completed his Ed.D. at The University of St. Thomas in St. Paul, Minnesota. From 1988 to 2005 Dr. Drozdal served as adjunct professor in the Executive MBA Program in the College of Business at The University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and has also taught at the Anderson Schools of Management at the University of New Mexico. For the last several years he has been a guest contributor to various newspapers including the Albuquerque (NM) Journal and Rio Rancho (NM) Observer.

Ines: Could you talk about what drew you to found “The Drozdal Company?”
John: I started thinking about it in the late 1980’s and finally got it launched in 1991. In the United States, in Kindergarten, there’s a category we get evaluated on called “works and plays well with others.” We make a judgment about how well the little kids do that. A lot of the curriculum and the learning is about teaching kids how to work and play with others. For some reason, after that first year of school, that emphasis goes away. People go through High School, University, Graduate school, and they learn how to do things. Then we throw them into the workplace and ask them to “work and play well with others,” and somehow they’ve forgotten how to do that.

So I wanted to start a company to help people remember what they learned in Kindergarten-how to work and play well with others. So through the years I’ve really focused on that activity. That involves teaching leaders how to lead, managers how to manage, and teams how to work effectively together. I do a lot of training, team building, and team interventions, and quite a bit of one-on-one coaching with my clients.

I first started thinking about workplace issues, when I finished High School. When I first graduated High School I was looking for a job to earn some money before I went off to college. The principal at my High School heard about this job at a water utility company. So I went down there for the interview, and they hired me on the spot. My job for the summer was going to be to organize the filing system.

The first day on the job, this older guy takes me down to the basement, into this big room, filled with files that are just everywhere, in total disorganization. He said “OK, your job for the summer is to organize these files, you might want to wear old clothes.” That was all the work direction I got, and I was sitting in that room thinking, “I really should have taken that job painting fire hydrants, at least I could see the results.” Fortunately, one of this guy’s direct reports came down to look for a file. I was sitting there, and he asked me why I looked so bummed. So I told him, and he said, “Oh, that boss isn’t a very good boss.” He actually taught me the basic organizing principals to get my job done, which is what the manager should have done.

When you have a new employee, you want to teach the employee how to do their job, and a lot of managers miss that part. Anyways, during the course of the summer, people would come down, while I was working on these files, and tell me their life stories, and how unhappy they were in the workplace. The themes that emerged were usually not feeling part of the work environment, not feeling valued in terms of contributions they made. I think that’s where the seed was planted and I started thinking maybe I could make a difference in this area and help people learn how to work together. It just took a while for me to have enough experience on my own where I felt confident in terms of what I could do.

Also, in terms of generational differences in the workplace, there are systems of training that work for particular workers, but don’t necessarily work for the other generations that have come through, especially in terms of teaching them.

I think one of the best examples I can give is the way medical training is done, particularly in the United States. It’s really an endurance test to see how sleep deprived you can be and still function. That’s the way medical training was historically done in the United States. Now people are realizing that it’s not the best idea to have an intern in their 36^th hour of rotation having to make a life or death decision for a patient. It’s also true in the legal profession. Law firms will hire junior associates and work them into the ground, because that’s the way it’s always been.

I think one of the great things about the millennial generation is that they’re asking the question “Why do you do things this way? There’s a better way to do this.” So there’s the clash of the old way of doing things versus the new way.

Ines: How do you see the workplace evolving as this new generation of digital natives floods into the workplace?
John: I think there are going to be fairly dramatic changes. As with many change processes, you’re always going to have resistance to change, on the part of people who can be affected by it. If we look historically at major social changes, there’s always been a “push-back” from the existing way of doing things. I think the organizations that are going to survive and thrive, are going to be those who see the new ideas and the polarity. In other words, it’s a both/and conversation. It’s not about replacing the old with the new, or clinging for dear life to the way organizations have always done things. It’s really about blending the two together. Those are the organizations that will survive.

Ines: Do you agree with what many people have been saying about a great shift in the definition of the employee? Are we moving towards a market with many freelance employees instead of the more traditional full-time employees in an organization?
John: I am seeing it occurring. I think it’s too early to see how that’s going to shake out. At heart, I’m a freelancer. I think one of the things that I needed to learn about myself is that I have the DNA of a freelancer. When you work for yourself, it can be pretty scary. You have to go find the work all the time. For some people, that really resonates with them, and others really struggle with that. So to say that we are going to change to an economy of freelancers, I’m not sure that’s really going to happen. What I do think is that we’re in a time when the traditional corporate structure is being called into question. What may happen is that people within organizations are looking for more freedom to create within that organizational structure.

Ines: How does your background in Social Psychology mixed in with your Business credentials help you in dealing with generations in the workplace?
John: I’m fascinated about how we can improve relationships in general, but particularly relationships in the workplace. For me, it comes down to three things. 1. Helping people be self-aware of who they are. That self-awareness is their style, point of view, biases, and competencies 2. Being able to appreciate the points of views of other people, their style, and how they work. 3. The willingness to find a common ground without being judgmental.

When I was an undergraduate, my senior thesis was in an area of Social Psychology called “Attribution Theory.” Attribution theory has to do with how we make judgments about people based on their appearance or about what they say initially. Based on my study, I found that people were in fact making judgments based on appearances.

I think that when we look at having four generations in the workplace now, we can all be guilty of making stereotypical judgments about people. We see it all the time, with boomers for instance, seeing the millennial generation come into the workplace with tattoos, piercings, and flip flops. They make a whole set of assumptions about that person. When in fact, if they really listened to the individual and took time to get to know them, they could see that they could offer extremely positive contributions to the workplace.
The reverse of that is that the millennial generation will also come into the organization and see this person with white hair or no hair, and make the assumption that they’re too old. “They should just leave now, and let us have our turn.”

My background in Psychology has really giving me an appreciation for the human condition and the fact that everybody has a gift that they bring into the workplace, if we just take time to understand what that is, we could have much more productive work environments.

Ines: What are your thoughts on this idea of a “brain gap” between digital natives and digital immigrants?
John: I just want to preface my answer. I have thoughts but they’re not necessarily in my area of expertise. I do think that there’s some credence to the fact that digital natives are wired differently. There’s a difference in the way digital natives process information. The metaphor I find really helpful, is that for digital natives technology is their first language, for generation X it’s their second language and they’re very fluent in it, for boomers it’s like learning a language later in life. It can be done, but it takes a lot of effort.

Ines: Are most of the issues you try to solve, products of generational differences or issues you feel are independent of generations?
John: I think it’s a combination of the two. I think that to help generations work effectively in the workplace, all generations need to be self-aware, understand the other’s point of view, and have the willingness to work together. But I think when you have those generational differences, it’s like any other difference in the workplace, it increases the need for good organizational practices.
One of the things I come across very often is the millennial generation saying they really want their manager to manage them. But one of the things that every manager dreads is being labeled a micro-manager. That’s not generational, it’s across the board.

As a result of this fear, managers will do things to not over-manage. Gen Y is saying, “I want to learn, I need more feedback on how I’m doing, I’d like more of your time.” What the millennial generation is doing is asking managers to provide what I call “good managing practices,” in spending time with their employees, finding out what they need to be effective, and providing that so they can be more effective. The generational difference is pushing the need for good organizational practices.

Ines: In terms of the people I’ve interviewed, there seems to be quite a lot of debate as to whether or not there’s in fact a serious generational gap. What’s your view?
John: I think organizations are going to have to change, and they’re not really going to have a choice. The younger generations are going to be replacing some of the older workers. There needs to be a dialogue between the older and younger generations. The younger generations are coming in with the new ideas, a new way of working, and a whole new view on what the world is about. The older generation feels dismissed. What reduces this tension is having the older generation’s fear of losing the old way of doing things minimized, by respecting their experience.

What’s also interesting is that generation Y is coming into the workplace and asking the questions that baby boomers wish they had asked. For example, with the whole work-balance thing, boomers aren’t necessarily happy about being workaholics. But they weren’t sure how to break the cycle.

Also, the whole generation that’s forgotten is Generation X. They are wondering why everyone is putting all this emphasis on the millennial generation. They’re saying “What about us?” Generation X is product of single parent homes, or dual-income homes, and so they learned to be self-reliant, and brought that independence into the workplace. There’s a tension between Gen X and Gen Y that not a lot of places are paying attention to. Gen X is being lost in the conversation and I think that’s a mistake. The Gen X employee also needs to be recognized in terms of contributions they can make. Even in the way we talk about this generation, we use the letter “X.” There are 26 letters in the alphabet and we picked the one that typically means unknown…

Ines: You recently started the blog, “working with twenty something’s.” I’m curious as to why this blog is separate from the “working with others” blog. Also, could you talk a bit about what you’re trying to accomplish through these two blogs?
John: When I was in college and coming out of college, the term that was used was “generation gap.” I was experiencing many things that Gen Y is now experiencing. I wanted to create a forum for helping this generation make a successful transition into the world of work, and to provide insights, mentoring opportunities, and create a dialogue. Working with others is about working relationships in general. I wanted to use the “working with twenty something’s” to look at generational differences and how that impacts working relationships. I really see an opportunity in developing working relationships. With my life experiences, I feel this is an opportunity to give back and to mentor, and to help this younger generation come along and not make the same mistakes I’ve made.

Ines: In one of your blog posts, you mention the perspective of a “Christian Scientist Monitor” article. The article argues that “The Devil wears Prada” is this generation’s coming of age movie. Do you agree? Also, what does it signify to shift from “The Graduate,” to “Risky Business” to “The Devil wears Prada, in terms of coming of age movies?”
John: I know with the boomer generation, pretty much every boomer knows the line in “The Graduate,” about plastics. There’s that famous scene, Benjamin has just graduated from college and one of the guests comes up to him and says, “I have one word for you…plastics.” That’s the sort of corporate structure to get into.

If you accept that Generation X is pretty independent and had to fend for themselves, “Risky Business” illustrates this total free-for-all exploration for independence.

With “The Devil Wears Prada,” I can see how it captures some themes regarding this generation. If you look at Andy’s friends, they are a very diverse group. One of the things that I love about the millennial generation is that diversity isn’t an issue for them. They grew up with diversity. They have friends from all walks of life. The other thing that’s really interesting in the movie is the whole tension of getting caught up in the rat race of success, and sort of selling your soul to the corporation. It’s the whole work-life balance thing that comes into stark reality. Is it the quintessential coming of age movie? I don’t know. But it does illustrate a lot of struggles of the millennial generation. I can see how people would say that it’s the coming of age movie for the millennial generation.

By Ines Schinazi

“My mother has always been an actress to me.”  This is how Jessy Hodges explains that her relationship with her mother hasn’t changed, despite the fact that they’ve recently found themselves in very similar places career-wise, while obviously being at completely different points in their lives.

As a mother gets back into her acting career, a daughter stands on the cusp of her fresh beginning.

What makes this story even more interesting, is the fact that Jessy Hodges, and her mother, Ellen Sandweiss (most famous for her role in the cult horror film “The Evil Dead”) are “learning together” as they both explore the completely new territory of acting in web series. Jessy stars in “Anyone but Me” (www.anyonebutmeseries.com) and Ellen in “Dangerous Women” (http://www.strike.tv/show/dangerous-women/).

In an exclusive interview, Jessy speaks about first discovering the film, “The Evil Dead,” and the teenage “OH. MY. GOD.” moment, that went along with that.

While she clearly feels lucky to have a mother who can give her advice about her career, she’s also really thankful that her boyfriend is a Law student, allowing her to take a break from the “ongoing conversation” that is acting.

On “Anyone But Me,” she plays the subtly omnipresent Sophie. Though ironically, she calculates she’s really only “…spent about 8 minutes on screen so far.”

Speaking to Jessy, you get the feeling that she’s quite wise beyond her years.  Full of introspection, playing Sophie has given her a lot to think about…

Ines:  Because of the technological nature of a “web series,” and all the advertising that goes on through Facebook, and Twitter, do you find yourself doing a lot of explaining to your mom as to how these things work?
Jessy:  It’s really funny, because in that specific regard, I find her totally explaining stuff to me.  She’s taken on a producer/directorial role, in her web series.  She’s an extremely energetic and motivated to learn type of person, so the stuff that she needed to figure out, she figured out pretty quickly.

Then at the same time, I’m of the computer generation, and so she’ll be like, “Wait…how do I turn it on again?”   Sometimes, she doesn’t get the basics, but she knows way more about Myspace and Twitter than I do.

Ines:  I read an interview in which you speak about, growing up without knowing that your mother was really famous for her role in “Evil Dead.”
Jessy:  My mom went to school for Theater and was very involved in Theater and acting in the early years of my life.

Then, she kind of took on a more mother figure role, particularly when my younger sister was born.  She also worked in my dad’s business, and stopped acting for a long time.

I had seen her on stage a lot when I was younger.   But the film, “The Evil Dead” was not a part of that conversation.  I believe it came out that she was in a movie when I was like 13 or 14.  And I was like, “What???” “You were in a movie?” I had no perception of what this movie was.

Then, my friends and I found this old VHS copy of “The Evil Dead” behind a line of books in a bookshelf!  And we were like, “OH. MY. GOD.”

We had to start watching for ten minutes while she was gone, and then put it back in the bookshelf…

When I turned 15 or 16, I finally got to watch it.  But it was only a couple years after I had seen it, that I realized what this movie was. This was a really important movie in horror. Sam Raimi (the director) coined all these technical camera techniques and all this cool stuff.

I only began, a couple years out of college to really appreciate the movie.  And every time I watch it, I love it, and appreciate it more.

Ines:  I’m curious to know what it’s like going from a kind of “outsider” perception of your mother’s career, to becoming a professional actress yourself, and following your mother’s current career.  What has that shift been like for you?
Jessy:  It’s intense really.  My friends will comment on my relationship with my mom.  They’ll be like, “Jessy and her mom are best friends.”   That’s the relationship that we already had.

Then, with my mom really starting to get back into acting, just as I’ve started getting into it.  You know it’s been wonderful and it’s been hard, and really interesting, and really bizarre.

Not only do I have my parents’ support, but also someone who knows exactly what I’m going through, and who can give me advice when I ask for it…stuff that most actors’ parents wouldn’t even know about.

But also, empathetically speaking, it’s rough. We both know what the other is going through, because for as many “baby successes” as you have in this career, there are a million disappointments. It’s a real hard but really gratifying world to be in.

It’s an ongoing conversation.  Sometimes all I want to do is talk to her about it and ask her about it.  Other times I’m like, “Ugh… god!  I can’t talk about this anymore! All my friends are actors, my mom’s an actress…luckily my boyfriend is a lawyer…”

Ines: Obviously you and your mother are at completely different points in your career, but because the web series is something that is so completely new and innovative, do you think your experiences, as actors on these web series, are really different or actually similar?

Jessy:  We can totally relate to each other on it.  We are both kind of bewildered and confused by it.  I feel like we’re in such beginner stages with web series, that we really don’t know what they are yet.  I mean people hardly know how to make money off them yet.  I think we’re both going “Wow.” I’m learning along with everyone else, including my mother.

Ines:  Can you talk a little about what it’s like to play Sophie on “Anyone But Me?”  She’s a really interesting character in the sense that she’s kind of off to the side, but we already get the sense that she’s going to be so central to the whole story…

Jessy:  Playing Sophie is one of the most fun things I’ve ever done.

Though because of the web series genre, I’ve probably spent about 8 minutes on screen playing Sophie so far.  You only get a little bit of time every time, so you’ve got to make it worth it.

On relating to the character, I really do.  I think more so, than I might have realized at the beginning.

It’s been so cool, because we’re filling in the lines, coloring in Sophie.   I’m sure that Susan Miller and Tina Cesa Ward would say that as they’ve gotten to know us as people, it’s definitely affected the writing.  They’re constantly writing, changing, and editing.

First of all, it makes me feel like I’m in High School again, which is crazy.  Also, I never had the experiences that Sophie is having or may have in the future.

I had close gay male friends in Theater growing up. But I never had someone the same sex as me, who was choosing to date women, at that young of an age. I think that it would have been confusing for me, despite the fact that I consider myself entirely open and gay friendly.

I wonder how that would have affected me in High School. I wonder how that will affect Sophie, being opened up into this world, in the suburbs, away from a big city, especially in real-world circumstances, not in some lame, stereotypical, one-dimensional way.

So it’s exciting, and it gives me a lot to think about for the character, and about myself in a weird way.

It’s always you playing the character.  I feel you have to establish your point of view, so that you can look into the character, and establish the character’s point of view, and see how it differs.

There’s always a comparing and contrasting, and a melding of the human you are, and the human you are portraying.